WWYD if you knew of an illegal childinding business?

[apotomak]

Would you shop them to Ofsted?
I just found out there is someone in my area minding without a registration. She doesn't even want to register and is still actively advertising her 'services'.

Normally laws need to be obeyed or challenged through the normal channels, But in an authoriatarian situation certain people rapidly find they have no voice, and that challenging laws via the usual means can appear nigh on impossible to do. That's why Rosa Parks had to break the law. And Ghandi. And an awful lot of East Germans after the Berlin Wall went up.

Here we have a situation where parents have apparently been de-voiced, with the best of intentions, but de-voiced none the less. In the meantime a massive, and I mean massive, child protection and educational inspection industry has sprung up in which there are a number of vested interests. Some of these have to do with protecting children, and some of them have more to do with maintaining a climate of anxiety and fear in order to justify vast expense on regulatory regimes, all of which require employees, managers, consultants, inspectors, suppliers, contractors and so on. Similarly insurance claims involve financial products, legal support, expert reports and so on, and there is big business here also.

Unless you understand that this is how modern democracy works, and that it's not all benign or neutral, you've not appreciated the full picture. It's not just about blind obedience to the law, it's about fully understanding how the law comes into being and why, and deciding as individuals when something is truly unhelpful to the greater good. I happen to think over-regulation falls into that category, as does un-neighbourly behaviour.

Here endeth the lesson.

Hi Rosiegirl - I am sorry I didn't mean to cause offence - believe me I was no great shakes at school - because I hated it and it didn't suit my learning style, I choose to work with children then because I loved children. Then i completely changed career and ended up quite a high powered PA, had my family and then came back to childcare. The experience I built up in childcare is invaluable and counts for so much but the training I do enhances everything because i ensure that I apply it. I am now doing my degree and going in depth into child development has really informed me and the 'outcomes' (to be techie about it) for children in my care are really good (sounds like I am bragging and I don't mean to) but I honestly and genuinely care about the children and their families that I look after. Quite apart from the fact they are my bread and butter, I strive to provide care that I would be happy to leave my own children in.

Sadly, I have come across childcarers who despite their experience who don't give a monkies about the children, treat them like dirt or jokes. And if these are regulated, suppposedly 'professional' carers then what hope for unregistered, unregulated carers, where there is no first aid training, no safeguarding awareness or knowing what to do, no supporting the child in development etc. Apart from the fact that the unregistered carer is more than likely not paying tax, getting correct insurances etc. Thats my gripe. It hits the headlines big time doesn't it when a 'childminder' does something to a child or is instrumental in whats happened to the child and more often than not - that person is not a childminder at all - rather a person who was caring for the child.

Everyone assumes that EYFS is some big evil thing - its not. Its nothing that a good professional caregiver was't doing prior.

Why do you have to do your ICP again, Madusa? That seems crazy! Mine doesn't have an expiry date on it.

Whilst I agree that laws need to be challenged this particular law about registering childminders did not come out of thin air. It came about because of truly horrific practices and is intended to protect children, parents and childminders. Over-regulation is, I agree, unhelpful but there are layers to this problem which aren't going to be solved by encouraging people to mind without being registered and break the law.

I honestly don't think the vast majority of parents aren't going to object to someone who has been trained in First Aid and basic child protection/safety/business sense, who has a piece of paper proving they're a suitable person to care for children and their home is fit for that pupose, and who has liability insurance looking after their children. In fact it's probably quite a comfort.

Warning-long post. A subject I feel very strongly about at the moment.

I also agree with looneytune. I'd love to see a two tier system for Child Minders. I agree with registration of Child Minders being compulsory, but do not agree with the levels of regulation we are seeing today.
I registered in 1991. I left a professional job on the birth of my first daughter 23 years ago. I gained a Level 3 qualification 4 years ago as I thought I may move into a different area of Child Care at some point. But I love Childminding too much to do that. Yet I have been sorely tempted to give up over the last year since EYFS came along.

I'd love to go back to the days of Social Services Registration. I had a friendly Under Fives Officer whom I could call for help and advice. We were expected to provide a wide range of activities for the children and and we worked towards delivering the requirements of the 6 areas of learning. But we did not have to perform to the same levels as schools and nurseries as we do now. In my opinion it just isn't feasible when you work alone, not if you want a life outside of Child minding that is. So yes, I think we should have the option whether to do all the observations, planning, etc. etc. but and if we don't, we would be graded differently. There is of course a two tier system already in operation but not extensively. That is the accredited/non accredited Child minders. I looked at being accredited 3 years ago and decided against it because of all the paperwork. And guess what? I'm doing it anyway now, but I didn't opt into this.

I believe that soon we will only be working with children under 3, because the free hours are increasing and will continue to increase. Many parents of children aged 3+ will expect to be able to bring their children to us for just the odd hours, and for us to drop off and collect them at their "educare" location and will expect to only pay for those odd hours. But they will also want the place to be available in the school holidays.

Then even more Childminders will give up, leaving parents with less choice as to the type of care they opt for.

I already charge less than the other Childminders in my area. If I charged more I would lose it on my tax credits. So I would be no better off and the parents would be worse off. I also do not mind to my full capacity. My choice because I find looking after a small number of children more enjoyable, not as tiring; and I can fulfill the needs of all the children more effectively.

I feel that I can do that without all the paperwork demanded by the EYFS. The parents of all the children are more than happy with the care that I provide. They agree with me that the audit trail Ofsted demand is mostly unnecessary. The children love being with me and even if I was graded satisfactory they wouldn't get a lower standard of care than they do now, when I am graded "Good" in all aspects.

After school today I had 3 minded children here, aged 3, 6 and 10; plus my 13 year old daughter. We played Hunt the Thimble, (not planned, just a spontaneous game), with me assisting the 3 year old. It was hilarious, exhausting and great fun. When the children had left I thought about writing up observations on the activity, analysing the learning aspects of it all. I decided not to bother. I shared the funniest parts with the 3 year old's father at collection time and made some notes in his diary fo his Mum. Then I listened to the two older children telling their Mum what a good time they had. I felt great about a lovely day when all the children had a good time and were able to select activities they were interested in. But I didn't bother with the observations. Does that make me a bad Child Minder?

I've been keeping an eye on this thread and am about to go to bed (having just finished sorting through files etc.) but thought I'd pop back on. Glad I did - you worded that PERFECTLY!!!

The number of times we have done exciting/interesting/educational but fun things but I've not had the energy to write up about it is loads. So I'm doing the same whether or not I write it but because I don't provide the proof (audit trail for Ofsted!), I'm clearly a rubbish childminder aren't i!!!

I know LOADS of people who HAVE found this hard to find the time for and some of these don't have children of their own to sort out outside of working hours.

I know others work longer hours, have more kids of their own etc. and if you're managing to get all this done then well done but I will not spend every single minute of my family time bloomin working!!! I work 7.30am-6pm (less than I used to) and by the time I've got my own children sorted, had dinner....I just haven't the energy to put into all of the 'written' stuff! I've spent enough time at the weekends already doing work and I PROMISED ds1 that I would start having some quality time with him at the weekends. Yes, I see my children when I'm working but it's never 'quality' time as I'm busy seeing to all the other children I'm paid to look after. Yes, my children benefit in many ways from having other children around but I can't carry on pushing them away at the weekends to catch up on paperwork, plus, I don't have anywhere quiet to hide and do it all (really need an office!)

I was determined to get to grips with the obs/planning next steps etc on paper before it came in but this just never happened. I was pregnant when doing all the training linked to EYFS and thought 'I'll use my 12 wks off work to get to grips with it all' - yeah right!!! lol ds2 wasn't an easy baby in the early days and was just SORT OF starting to be 'ok' when I started back when he was 10 wks old. Guess what day that was.......1st September 2008 (the day EYFS started!!!). And guess what.....I've still not got a 'proper system' in place - just lots of post its and a million photos!! One day I will get to grips with it but seriously, it is not making any difference to what I do with the children. I know all my mindees very well, they are all different and it's all in my head what they are capable of and what we should do next to expand on their learning.

I now work with dh (recent) and we could have chosen to take on just 2 extra full time children meaning 2 extra mindees to do EYFS on but instead we went with the flow and ended up with lots of part timers. Result - gone from 3 mindees in the EYFS age group to 11 mindees in that age group!!!! Can you see how much extra work this creates. So now many childminders are discriminating in a way (but I can understand why) against the ones who want part time as they don't want to have to do all that extra work!!

Sorry, I've gone off on one and I have had some wine tonight but it just makes me so damn fed up as every time we're doing something I'm thinking 'oh, best write that down' 'oh, where's my camera'. And do you know what, with my lovely lot, it ends up putting them off and they have started running away from the camera at times

I agree there needs to be regulation but I've on MANY occasion thought about quitting (but my parents won't let me!! )

As a parent using a CM, I've been following this with interest. I am glad my CM (who is registered) has an awareness of early years education but I think beyond that it is putting far too much pressure on CMs who largely work alone.

My CM has 3 children of her own. When I was working, she looked after my DD full time. I'm currently on ML so she is looking after DD 2 days per week and she will have DS when I go back to work. DD also goes to playgroup in the morning one of the days she is with the CM. I'm happy with this arrangement but as far as I'm concerned, DD does her 'structured' group play at playgroup and her time with the CM is equivalent to time at home so she has lunch, a nap and a bit of free play, walks to the school to fetch the older children, snack and a bit more free play and is then collected.

I would rather the afternoons could be adjusted to fit in with what the children want to do on a particular day rather than having to do the plans and observations. IT seems unnecessary and over the top and yes, I am campaigning against it and what notice have the government taken? Absolutely none.

Bravo to Boffin, couldn't agree more.

I am a childminder inspected March 2008, graded outstanding in three areas and good in two. Overall a good. I am running my business exactly the same as I have always done, diaries, photo's, newsletter etc. But no observations next steps etc.

When ofsted come next and downgrade me for that let them. I am doing exactly the same things, the children have a lovely time, parents are happy and supportive but ofsted don't take that into account, they want reams of paper only they will ever see or be bothered about. I am an alternative to a nursery and won't be moulded into one.

If every child is an individual as they say, why can't we let them grow and develop naturally without pushing for the next step, then the next step etc etc.

Rant over - afternoon off - quality time for me now !!

I ahven't read all of this thread.

I know something of the hoops that childminders have to go for and I do believe that there is a danger of over regulation but on the other hand the fact that someone has made the effort to go through the process of registration says to me that they care about doing things properly and legally. So I would look on that positively in weighing up the various factors when chosing childcare.

I have used nannies many of whom had no formal childcare qualifications and who (in the past) weren't regulated by the same regime as childminders. However it has to be said that when my kids were young the childminders had to go through a lot less hoops than they do now. Again I took all sorts of factors into account when choosing them but I always looked favourably on those nannies who had made the effort to get qualified.

I totally understand the annoyance of the registered childminders on this thread - you must feel as if its a bit of a kick in the teeth when people aren't interested in the fact that you've worked so hard to do things right.

I guess I would point out to her that she should be registered and if she tells you to F off - report her!

Very interesting thread. I'm a new CM and waiting for the dreaded call from Mrs Ofsted.
I looked at some inspection reports from local minders and a few were 'inadequate'
When reading through it, the only thing that was 'wrong' was that the CM did not seem to understand how to do 'next steps'.
She did the obs, linked to 6 areas of learning but did not 'progress the child'.
But in the same report, it was praising her, for knowing each child well, getting on the floor with them, being sensitive to their needs, being cuddly, feeding them well.
It's just so arbitary, you can be a loving CM, everything a parent would want for their child, but they can be brought down by an inspector, who does not like the paperwork!
This CM, also did the risk assesments and policies perfectly OK

Well that's a problem with subjective inspections which isn't going to change until I take over OFSTED

Ripeberry: 'the only thing that was 'wrong' was that the CM did not seem to understand how to do 'next steps'.'

The problem is that that is a big (IMHO) failure, as its a bit pointless doing observations and knowing what a child can do if you're not using this to plan for their learning. The 'next steps' shouldn't be onerous at all, its just thinking 'ok, X can count to 3 confidently, so next week when we count I'm going to count bigger numbers - so we'll count 5 (then 10) blocks/spoons/dolls/stairs as we climb them together'. Its what good childcare should be doing anyway.

onadayliketoday I'd say you definitely did the right thing not writing up loads of observations on your fun hide and seek game. Again observations don't have to be onerous - you're only expected to do quick post-its for 'Wow' moments and 1 longer (5-10 min) observation once per month per child. If I was you on this week's planning I'd just put 'children all enjoyed hunting game - play again with children taking turns to hide objects' and maybe 'think about extending positional language (under, over, behind etc) for 3 and 6 year olds'.

Its only "illegal" if she's caring for under 8's! If she cares for over 8's then she doesn't have to be registered.

However, please note that the childminder who was one of 2 people who were "praised" in a high profile child protection case was not registered. They aren't always bad, they just want to avoid the mountains of paperwork!

Would there be scope for a computer program for CMs whereby you would just tap in a word, then choose the achievement or Early Learning Goal from a list, and then the software would add it to a report that complied with OFSTED's reporting requirements and could be printed off easily whenever required, giving up to date snapshots of children's progress, etc? This software could also automatically generate all the necessary policies, etc.

CMs, nurseries.... that could be a Godsend. Patent it, quick!

BoffinMum Thats exactly what the end of EYFS Foundation Stage Profile report does. Its unwieldy though and whilst it produces reports these have to be re-written because the language of the EYFS goals isn't always parent-friendly.

Before that what you're suggesting isn't a requirement and (I feel) it'd just add stress and a level of 'expectation' that is greater than whats already there. It'd be tempting for larger organisations to use it to fake results - i.e. make children look like the were slightly less able when they started and more able when they left so the 'added value' of what they offered looked greater.

Also it'd be very easy to produce worrying reports that showed a 23 month old was 'performing' within the 8-20 month old aims. Which'd worry parents and add pressure for staff to 'teach' new things quickly (as happens with the FS Profile) when the child is probably totally normal and just consolidating what they knew/making up for period off sick or whatever.

Finally the whole joy (not being sarcastic, I really do think its a useful tool) of the EYFS is in becoming familiar with the goals so you know instinctively what the child's next steps are... or looking at their suggestions when you wonder where to take a child's learning next... not just making it a paper exercise to produce fancy reports and stats on children's 'performance'!

leeloo1 that might be what it's supposed to do but if you look at reports in practice it's not what OFSTED 'want'. OFSTED want to see a paper exercise with reports and stats because they don't have time for an in depth chat, observation and report. They need to see a paper trail.

There are those who are using EYFS the way you are as a useful tool. There are others who are wonderful with children but struggle with the reporting aspect and consolidating what they know from experience/previous training and applying it to a new framework. I trained under the old FS and Bto3 and found changing over to EYFS difficult enough, I hate to think what those who worked with previous systems had to deal with.

I don't think it would be easy to produce such worrying report - anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that EYFS is based on normative development and children develop at different rates. It's not problem for a 23 month old to be 'behind' in some areas of development. It's when there's a very large discrepancy that one would worry. Plus that kind of report wouldn't stand up to medical scrutiny as they would carry out a whole range of developmental checks and put people's minds at rest. It's obvious when a child isn't ready for something. The existence of EYFS is what puts pressure on staff to teach new things - I fail to see how a tool like the one boff proposes would increase that pressure. It's just another way of using EYFS but one which identifies the key points having run a search for relevant material. It's a specialised google with a tagging function that cross links to a word document, kinda like a an app for an iphone that picks things up off the internet selectively.

Mmmm, well, guess we'll agree to differ. I also previously worked with B-3 and FS, but don't see there's that much difference tbh.

The FS profile does do reports of 'value-added' type things, and they gave quite a skewed impression of the children. This is what I was thinking of when I said I was worried that something for younger children would be used in this way.

My concern is that there reports aren't used by people with 'common sense' - they'd be the ones chatting to the children, and using the EYFS as a tool - not looking at reports. The most use would be (IMO) to nursery managers who wanted to prove how outstanding their nursery was.

I'm sure if someone did make such a program for the earlier years of EYFS then they'd make a killing from worried practitioners who felt they needed it, but it might be short-lived as the Conservatives will most likely scrap the EYFS anyway...

That would be cool.

1. Snap picture of kid on iPhone doing some OFSTED-friendly learning whilst hopefully looking appealing.
2. Email picture to parents whilst dragging and dropping appropriate simplified OFSTED learning label into child's file along with photographic evidence.
3. Automatically upload snapshot with corresponding report next time phone syncs. Software produces attractive printed report on demand.

We could call it iSpy!

I really don't remember there being so much reporting etc under Bt3 and the FS. Maybe it was just the nursery I was at and the fact I became a nanny in between

OFSTED don't operate on common sense though. OFSTED want to see paper, which is the problem, as a lot of perfectly good practioners panic when faced with paper. The reports are only really useful when given to other people (as a form of summative assessment at the end) or to show OFSTED that you're doing stuff. Anything which makes good practioners lives easier for dealing with OFSTED is a bonus.

Boff I'm going to develop that app!

I think I may have BoffinMum's post of Tue 09-Feb-10 21:35:48 printed on a poster

At the preschool I am involved with as a committee member we have had no end of hassle from Ofsted and our EYFSA who want us to do a 'rolling snack'. It happens that one of our committee members is a very senior paedeatric clinical dietician and is appalled that this is being put into place in many, many settings. She says it is against all the evidence and contrary to what the DoH recommend, but will OFSTED listen? Of course not!! And we keep losing 'marks' because we refuse to implement it.

I have something very similar
I take photos & using an excel spreadsheet I use a look up table to create the EYFS links (which are all coded) I write a caption & add a next step

The programme then prints out a sheet on next steps which can be used over the following weeks

Aw, shucks, Daisy.

(DH said it was overkill to invoke Ghandi and Rosa Parks, btw)

Hey, Ebay apparently has it all. Buy your childminding resources from someone who can't position an apostrophe correctly. Spend time with your own children instead of reinventing the wheel! Satisfy the insatiable hunger of the OFSTED inspector for more and more paperwork!

It's even OFSTED approved, apparently!