WWYD if you knew of an illegal childinding business?

[apotomak]

Would you shop them to Ofsted?
I just found out there is someone in my area minding without a registration. She doesn't even want to register and is still actively advertising her 'services'.

I've not said I would break the law. I wouldn't. I strongly dislike though a law that says I can't look after my friend's child and she mine, without registering as a childminder. And I disagree that that the training makes childminders better carers than people who haven't done the training.

btw as some here seem to think that most cms are one step away from some sort of sweet but dim mary poppins..

I have 9 O levels(age tells)and 4 A levels. I am a nursing sister who spent years working in a busy city centre accident and ememgency department and then became a district nurse with 10 years experience.

I have been a mother for the last 21 years and have 4 children, so I think I am pretty good at looking after other peoples children actually.

I dont cm because I cant do anything else I choose to do it as a career...

of the other cms I know personally, one was a teacher and the other had a high powered job in a large telecoms company.

Many cms nursery workers and nannys are more highly qualified than the parents who use their services. lol

By 'some', you mean boffinmum. Because nobody else has mentioned it.

I don't condone unregistered childminding, but can see why it happens, but there is no evidence that she is not paying tax, that is an assumption.

glastocat Registered childminding in ireland

A collegues' sister has been doing a huge amount of work over the last 5 years i registering childminders in Ireland

By TheFallenMadonna Mon 08-Feb-10 23:24:40
And I disagree that that the training makes childminders better carers than people who haven't done the training.

Better CARERS no because the basic boring ICP training doesn't, and isn't intended, to teach you how to care for children apart from a few words on the importance of play and routines. It's a 12 hour run down of the basic knowledge of safety, food hygiene, child protection, setting up and running a business, communication with parents (you have to) and appropriate behaviour management (don't hit). But you know what, I'm glad I've done it because I now KNOW that I'm not doing anything dangerous.

There are two sides to CMing - one is the compliance/business/legal aspect, the other is being a good childcarer. You can be great at one and crap at the other but you do need both to be a 'good' CM. I credit most parents with enough sense to know who is suitable as a person to look after their children but the law stands and the choice is limited by that law. Anyone can comply with that law and set themselves up as a CM but if they're really that awful with children they probably won't last long.

Lots of really complex issues here but one basic one - the law, whether you agree with it or not, is being broken. Morally one should report this to OFSTED who will presumably do as they see fit. I doubt there is a legal obligation to do so.

Am not a CM so should probably wander off now.

I think there's also the fact that some people are actively going to want a childminder who doesn't do all this Early Years Learning crap. Because not all parents approve of it or think it's appropriate for under 5s. There is a lot to be worried about in the government's general attitude towards children and parenthood - narrower and narrower definitions of what is 'permissible', the government's assumption that EVERYONE is basically a thick feral criminal, guilty until proven innocent, who needs to be checked up on all the time and if anyone wants to retain privacy, well they must be a terrorist or a peedafil or something.

Also FFS it's vital to teach DC that breaking the law is often a GOOD thing to do, that rules should be examined and if they are unjust or stupid, go ahead and break them. Though you have to be prepared to take the consequences if necessary, the best way to get stupid laws and rules dispensed with is to encourage everyone to break them repeatedly.

The regulations for childminders do appear pretty onerous - is it really all for good reasons? I think it's debatable. But basically parents who can't afford the exceptionally high cost of a full-time nanny which would allow them to set their own agenda for their child's care, have no other option but care that conforms to a government set agenda via childminders and nurseries. The trouble is, I think few people who use an unregistered childminder are really thoughtful "conscientious objectors" as such!!

I know so many desperate parents that when a solution presents itself that makes the plate juggling easier, they take it. I suspect that is what is happening here. It doesn't make it right. But if unregistered childminding is relatively common, which I suspect it is, I think it's time to ask WHY so many people are opting out.

I suspect the why 90% of the time is not because childminders object to the insurance etc reuqirements of registration, what they object to is EYFS, risk assessments and paperwor. Do a poll on MN or another board for childminders or just ask OFSTED or the NCMA for registration figures and see how many people have let their registration lapse and tie it in to when OFSTED starting putting more and more paperwork and demands on childminders.

The requirement for a basic course, 1st aid etc didn't really affect registration have been that way in many local authorities for years.

MN campaign - two tier registration system for childminders, one with the requirements of the voluntary register and one with the requirements of the compulsory register. Anyone with me?

alibubbles

Funny you should mention childminding.ie. When I moved here six years ago I looked into childminding as a career. I did a little course over six evenings with them and got a nice certificate from them, which I'm pretty sure says I was registered as a childminder with them. I have never minded any child except my own though. But I don't think its quite the same as it is in the UK, there is certainly no legal obligation to register, and I'd say most don't bother unless they want to get the equipment grant. There's certainly nothing to stop people looking after each other's kids if they want, or compell them to fill in lots of forms.

WWID?

Unless i had concerns about the safety of the children/quality of the care, I'd do absolutely nothing. I think it's crazy that parents aren't allowed to make their own judgement about who they choose to take care of their children. I don't need help from OFSTED.

Leeloo1 I'm glad you didn't take the high road...It just goes to show that there are many chldminders out there who are extremely well qualified, if not over qualified...ex. teachers, nannies and nursery workers with relevant quals, etc etc

Also, all the good childminders I know who don't have relevant qualifications are currently studying for NVQ level3 etc

Running any small business is onerous on the paperwork and childminding is no different.

Yes training and having good paper work b doesnt mean you are great with kids.. as a previous poster said, but in the end kids will hate to come to you and you loose parents trust so being great with kids AND paperwork equals one succesful small business.

I cant belive SOLIDGOLDBRASS attitude, you pick and choose laws to break or accept as you or your child sees fit? presumably the person who burgled our house last year just wanted our stuff.. thats ok then!!

the school coach driver who sexually abused me and some of my friends as children in the 70s just wanted to touch up little girls ... thats all right then..

your teaching your kids to break laws as and when it suits them is totally irresponsible and may come back to bite you in the arse..

theBody
I do see your point. But I think this is different. The government have overbureaucratised the process of childcare for working parents in this country and, it is my opinion, have begun to impinge on parents' rights to decide how their children can be cared for in their absence. This is a pretty fundamental right, I think most people would agree. It's OFSTED's way, which includes a lot of things which are of debatable value to looking after children, or it's 'illegal'? Unless you have a spare £30-40K lying around for a full-time nanny, then you can opt out.This is unacceptable in my view.

FGS you can hardly compare a decent but unregisterd CM in the same league as shoplifting! One of them isn't doing any harm, the other is.

it is onerous, but its then up to parents and carers to lobby MPs and get the law changed..

its not up to cms to set up in business and deliberatly break the law.

The trouble is if a cm isnt registered she isnt insured either so putting children at risk in the car and in the home.

if you are looking after children you should be regulated, in the 70s we had the situation where 8 or 9 children were being looked after by 1 cm. if there are no limits people take advantage.

Friends can have reciprocable care arrangements but NOT for reward.

Its certainly in my view totally unacceptable to break laws as and when you feel like it..

Having said all that, I agree the government is creeping into too many aspects of our private lives and its probably gone too far and many good cms are leaving as a result thus narrowing parental choice..its a difficult balancing act, safeguarding children and being a bit sensible about it!!

if shes not regulated how do you know she isnt doing any harm.. SHE CANNOT GET HOUSE OR CAR INSURANCE FOR THE CHILDREN IN HER CARE.. seriously injured children would be left with no recourse as insurance companies wouldnt pay out if you dont tell them you are carrying children as a business or they are injured in your home(ie place of work)

thats harm..

maybe it isn't as black and white as some of you think it is.

Last year I wanted to become a childminder again having let my registration lapse. I thought that ofsted would come and inspect my house again and away we go.

No. Not that simple.

I have to wait a year to attend a pre registration course to find out "what a childminder does" and to see if I still want to become one. Then I have to do the ICP again. So after about 2 years of asking to re register, I may be a fully operational CM. It is ridiculaous.

I know several people who would use my services as a childminder (they have asked me and i have turned them down), but because I want to keep everything legal and above board, I have to tell them to go elsewhere as it is going to take me ages to become registered again.

I worked as a childminder so had the ICP and everthing else in place. I now work as a nanny so still have public liability insurance, 12 hour first aid, current CRB and occasionally go on courses to keep myself updated with the latest info in the childcare world.

If i became an unregistered childminder, I would still be able to give quality care and attention but it would be illegal.

yes get that point MADUSA and sympathise. I had to wait to do the paediatric first aid course and I am a Registerted General Nurse so that was a bit silly imo.. and had to pay for it of course.

Previous experience should be taken into consideration pehaps??
having to Waiting a year for the ICP course is ridiculous.

Blind obedience to the-law-just-because-it's-the-law is every bit as bad as deciding you can do whatever you like. Use your wits.

just enjoy living in a democracy love.. thats why half the world wants to come to Britain.. and dont blame them..

picking and choosing the laws you want to keep, just because thats what YOU think is right, is totally ridiculous.

you can vote cant you? and lobby your MP to change laws?..

its not about using your wits its about growing up.

I cannot believe some of the comments posted. SolidGold talking about just going ahead and breaking the law for example. That is a shocking and appalling and quite frankly scary attitude. Yes we all at some point occasionally break the law by going a few miles of the speed limit for example and we are all aware of the horrific consquences of what could happen in an accident outside the speed limit (inside the speed limit for that matter) but the gist of what SolidGold is say goes far beyond this and sadly it appears to be quite indicative of todays - 'want it all, have it now and screw anyone else - look after number one' societies attitude in general.

EYFS has partly been bought in to ensure that people looking after children actually have some idea about child development. Training and upskilling the workforce is about ensuring that practitioners actually have knowledge, its slowly weeding out those who really don't give a flying monkey about caring for yours (mine, hers, their) child - those are there because they failed all their GCSE's and it was a choice between childcare and hairdressing, those who are in it for the money (although that is quite a laugh but I am talking for a CM's viewpoint - those who have all six spaces filled because their own children have grown up/out of numbers and have no passion or enthusiasm for what they are doing), those who do not see children as people in their own right, those who think that children need the same things, its a stop gap etc.

We were talking about this at uni today, 2 childminders, 1 preschool manager and 1 tweenie room manager - talking about what is wrong with the sector - and it quickly became apparent that its people who have no genuine interest in what they do or the children they work with. Tweenie room manager was saying the woman who runs the pre-school has no actual child experience (not even her own) - has employed several staff who just don't get it, prefers to spend the money on tyres for her car but cannot understand why she needs to improve the outdoor provision. I know childminders who, although they have had these children in their care for a while they haven't a clue who that child is, how to support them and have no genuine connection with them.
Absolutely appalling.

Pippin and is that childminder registered?

Yes Harriet, those childminders are registered (and I see where you are perhaps leading with that) - but due to the EYFS implementation their practice has HAD to be pulled up to scratch - and they are struggling. Meaning they are actually having to work for their money and provide proper care and learning for these children.
I provide, as a childminder a home from home play based environment - a 'learn with mother' type of thing and I can and do see the results of the application of my knowledge, parents acknowledge it too.

Yes I am an advocate of EYFS (although there are parts I do disagree with) and I agree that there should be a regulated, skilled, knowledgable workforce, ones who have pride in their jobs (and i have nothing at all against g'parents caring for family or trusted friends - providing that no money is changing hands or they are calling themselves childminders and working as such).

Pippin - I failed in my O'levels, yes that far back , didn't become a hairdresser - I worked for the fire brigade, mobilising emergency vehicles, (took me on after lots of testing which wasn't educational based - more common sense) it was incredibly stressful and challenging (only giving up after the birth of my DD's - nights killed me) I then worked for a bank, taking the first 2 exams in Cefa passing both with a merit.

I am rubbish with paperwork - but really good with children and people. I have just had a pre-inspection by the NCMA who said I have a lovely way with the children, my home is beautiful, but my paperwork will let me down.

Of course I must be registered its the law, but the way the law is going it will drive childcare back underground making it even more dangerous.