WWYD if you knew of an illegal childinding business?

[apotomak]

Would you shop them to Ofsted?
I just found out there is someone in my area minding without a registration. She doesn't even want to register and is still actively advertising her 'services'.

i am a childminder but if i chose to let my friend watch my daughter thats my choice what difference should it make where money is involved the people could easily watch children and not take a penny but that wouldnt count as being illegal but then there not insured,crb checked and first aid trained. whats the difference really. if you no i person and trust them with your child then you should have the right to let them watch your child and if you chose to thank them for there time and effort by paying them thats your choice. however i disagree with people advertising as a childminder if not registered. however being a childminder to people you know is different to registering to strangers

The trouble is, the registering of childminders is just another aspect of the current incredibly totalitarian and meddling Government, in that everybody has to be registered and checked (and charged) for just about everything these days. If people want to make private arrangements with trusted friends (for example, to swap childcare) they should be able to do so.

ANd I alwo wonder how the OP knows quite so much about this woman.

sorry should say "ADVERTISING" to strangers

"I went through three months of hoop jumping"

Let me be provocative for a minute, and then I will duck behind the sofa while you all flame me.

Three months is nothing, really. I spent eight years full time equivalent at university getting qualified as an educationalist, and when I look at people who hardly have GCSEs and A Levels, let alone any degree level study behind them, I do not think they are really the right people to entrust my child to for protracted periods of time during their early years. I do not see CM as 'experts' or necessarily more trustworthy than non-CM.

I don't think I am the only person to feel that way.

With respect, I don't think it is the same thing at all as unregistered doctors. Because I know that, untrained, I can give good care to my own and my friends' children. Without being regulated by OFSTED.

Apotomak if you don't report her, it's only a matter of time before someone else does.

I'm surprised that unregistered childminders who actually advertise are given a second chance by ofsted and allowed to register once caught.

Report her - if she is doing nothing wrong then she has nothing to fear.
I would also report her to the taxman.
Why the HELL should I pay my taxes and do my books etc etc just for someone to be committing FRAUD.

I have worked very hard in my choosen profession - childminding, I have poured blood, sweat and tears into producing an excellent, high standard, quality service that I would be happy to leave my children in. I am shocked that some people believe childminders aren't professional or qualified (although I would never claim to be an expert, I am educated, knowledgable etc) - well I can tell you I certainly am and i put my all into training and professional development. I am actually qualified enough to go and work and run a nursery or be lead practitioner in a reception class for example. I deliver care AND education.

I digress though - these people are NOT childminders by any stretch of the imagination - they are simply unregistered care, you earn the title Childminder through registration, inspection and professionalism.

The OP probably knows a lot about this woman because as unregistered care she more than likely won't have done the necessary (first aid, other relevant training etc) and yes as people rightly point out the CRB check is only valid on the day its performed however it can give some degree of confidence to people. I know people like to quote the cases where people have slipped through the net but there are plenty more cases where its perhaps stopped an unsuitable person.

I would not go to an unqualified or disqualified doctor - even one who has many years experience, or I feel "comfortable" with - my health is way more valuable than that. I must admit i would question as to why someone would leave their most precious gift with someone who is unregistered. As for reciprocal care - that is currently under review and i have no problem with family/close friends caring for relatives etc providing its not a business arrangement and providing that person is providing adequate care.

There is no register of childminders in Ireland, so my childminder is unregistered. She has looked after my son for five years, and is like a member of the family. So, I wouldn't sweat it, and I certainly wouldn't report her.

BoffinMum I'm not sure why you've decided to put cms all in the same box re. qualifications. Some childminders have worked with children for many years before they go into childminding. Often being drawn to it after they start their own family because it allows them to use their existing skills in a job where they care for their own children at the same time.

I'm not sure how to take your comment re. qualifications and am just wondering how you managed to fund studying for eight years. Some people havn't had the same opportunities you have...does that make them some sort of lesser person???

I could blow my own trumpet and mention my own qualifications but really what's the point?

Does the training actually cover what parents are looking for in a carer for their children though? I have no first aid certificate, yet care for my children. I would choose a trusted friend with no first aid certificate over someone I didn't know with one I think. Does the training go beyond the regulation hoop jumping, because otherwise I'm not sure why the range of childcare offered by registered childminders would be any different to that offered by, well, anyone else. If I were choosing from a selection of strangers, I would of course have those things to take into consideration, but they wouldn;t attract me over and above somebody I knew was a good carer.

Nobody needs a degree to look after children. If this was the case, all children would be dead. Does any child get to school age without being entrusted to anyone without a degree?

'when I look at people who hardly have GCSEs and A Levels, let alone any degree level study behind them, I do not think they are really the right people to entrust my child to for protracted periods of time during their early years.'

Boffinmum - not sure which CMs you've met, but although I didn't quite manage to spend 8 years at Uni like you, I did spend 6 - 4 years of undergrad degree, 1 year for my MA and 1 year at Homerton for my Early Years PGCE. So hopefully that would make me suitable to entrust your child to, now that I am (shock horror) a childminder.

Being registered as a CM obviously doesn't ensure that you are educated, but it does allow parents to choose childcare safe in the knowledge that all CMs will have received a basic standard of training. It also means that they will have insurance and that Ofsted can grade, regulate and investigate complaints.

Obviously parents need to feel comfortable with the CM but I don't think that registered/unregistered should be a criteria of choice and I do feel unregistered CMs should be reported.

GiveMeChocolateNOW cross-posted with you - taking the moral high ground would have been the more dignified option...

Do you think the unregistered childcarer knows that she needs to be registered?

I can't believe that if she knew, she would be openly advertising - as someone is bound to tell on her.

Maybe she just needs a friendly point in right direction?

If she then refuses, or doesn't think it necessary , I'd disapprove but would leave well enough alone - everyone is having a tough time and she can be a great childcarer without havign to be registered - yes she may be illegal, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's not great with the kids.

Snitching on her is just spiteful unless you have genuine reasons to be concerned for tehkids in her care .

If the parents have any sense they'll start to ask why she is so cheap compared to others and then its up to them if they choose her.

personally'd rather have an unregistered carer who my kids loved to bits and ihad faith in, than one who was registered, but I didn't get a good feel for.

I've always used registered care btw and very good they have been too - but equally I know some great childminders who have given up recently due to additional paperwork they all have to do - I don't feel my child needs a CM who is, in effect, being pushed into being an almost qualified teacher - thats what they go to school for!

Is it appropriate to teach your children that only some rules & laws need to be complied with?

Isn't the real issue with unregistered CMs insurance? (From a parent's point of view, I mean, tax avoidance is obviously a biggie too.)

As I understand it, if your child has a serious accident while with an unregistered CM, you have no chance of compensation (e.g. to deal with long-term disability) and presumably the CM would also be criminally liable.

That is a situation I would go a long way to avoid.

Agree that registered CMs work extremely hard and do not deserve to be undercut by those working illegally.

(Informal exchange of childcare between friends is obviously completely different.)

I used to have a registered CM and she was good. DD loved her, she could sometimes be a bit scatty but I trusted her.

Then she went through a relationship break-up and left her hubby. Moved into a different house in the village and told me she could no longer be a CM as she wasn't registered at the new house. The house wouldn't pass inspection because the bannisters were horizontal. As it was rental prop she couldn't change them.

She did decide to carry on CM'ing for some of the kids she'd had before inc my DD which was a big relief. Then some nasty witch shopped her and I lost my CM.

I'm with inveteratenamechanger.

I'm a CM myself and jump through all the hoops but I really wish I had the option to be the same sort of childminder but without having to write it all down!!! So in MY perfect world, there would be 2 titles. One would be for Childminders who are fab with the children but just don't want to have to make an audit trail to prove to Ofsted we're doing what we say we're doing. And another title for the ones who want to follow all this EYFS etc. Then parents would have a CHOICE! They've made it so it LOOKS like those who don't use a childcarer (incl my own children) don't get the same opportunities - rubbish! I do feel that if there was the 2 options, more childminders would stick at it and there wouldn't be so many doing it illegally.

I personally would get very p'd off if someone who was not registered was advertising as a proper childminding service whereas I don't see AT ALL what the problem is with someone choosing someone they trust who isn't registered.

AntirrhinumMajus
Is it appropriate to teach your children that only some rules & laws need to be complied with?

Do you drive? Do you ever go over the speed limit?

There are loads of laws and I bet there isn't a single person on here who obeys all of them all of the time, and most kids wouldn't even know - I mean, who's going to tell the kids ' right, I'm leaving you with X, but she's not registered - that's illegal you know'

What a ridiculous argument to put forward.

I can see how it seems unfair on the hardworking excellent childminders who do put loads of effort in and have all the additional paperwork - but really if a parent is prepared to forgo the insurance aspect ( same as if your child had an accident while in a friend's care - would you sue her?) then it should be up to them.

if they don't want the additional protection afforded by insurance (not CRB)and don't need the planning and reporting that ofsted requires CMs to do, and have trust in the person, they should be allowed to choose whoever they are most comfortable with - and unless there is evidence to the contrary everyone else should keep their beaks out.

Makes my blood boil ! what happened to neighbourly good and looking for the best in things rather than ways to bring everyone down!

Looneytune - agree !

the ideal would be 2 levels - those prepared tojump thru' hoops could charge a premium , but those who just give great care without having to write it all down could be a bit cheaper and parents could then choose.

I agree totally with the last post of minderjinx, I am a registeed cm and yes do moan about the hoops Ofsted make us jump through but thats for a reason isnt it?

I agree that the unregistered cm might be fantastic with kids and parents may love her but she is breaking the law..

the posters who see this as trivial, do you condone other forms of law breaking, stealing or fraud for example? or is it only those laws dealing with children that dont seem to matter.

the law is the law isnt it, we cant pick and choose those we like and those we dont..

I can certainly see some parents leaving their child with an unregistered cms because yhry are CHEAPER, pehaps thats their main motivation.