My nanny is a domestic disaster....

[WashwithCare]

I've hired both nannies I've employed because I thought they were natural with children. Glad to say, both have been fantastic with my 3 yr old, and she loved them both to bits.

However, I used to think it would be hard to find someone less domestic than Nanny 1 - that's till I met Nanny 2.

It's a 30 hr week over 3 days, and sole charge of just 1 3 year old, who goes to preschool for 2 1/2 hrs a week. The agreement was spelled out as solecharge plus nursery duties...

I have to say, if I do ask her to do something specific, like pick up party food for DD's party, she does do it - and she does do my daug's ironing and make her bed without being asked... but pretty much nothing else... - and she has 2 hours a day usually child-free!

The milk from the previous night is still next to my daug's bed when I get home from work, the art drawer is in a mess, the toy cupboard is rarely tidied. She wouldn't pick up her shoes and give them a polish, or tidy her book shelf, or change the sheets on her bed. One week, toys that I left on the lawn stayed there all week...

She never cooks anything more skilled than a baked potato - but most days she will either re-heat my home cooked meals, use the convenience food I would keep for emergencies or feed her snack food, like sandwiches..

She is very good with her, and DD has settled with her very well - but I would also have expected all of the above domestic stuff too... Are my expectations unreasonable?

Any advice on what I am doing wrong would also be helpful. Should I be providing a list rather than expecting her to use her initiative? She is an experienced nanny with over 20 yrs exp, and came with glowing references.

Advice apprecatiated - thanks!

Sorry - that should say - preschool for 2 1/2 hour a day - not a week!

I wonder if it's worth giving her a daily/weekly 'to do' list? I would certainly want to if I wasn't living up to expectations, and I would want to correct that. So long as it's done nicely I can't see how she'll mind.

re you leaving the toys on the lawn and she didn't tidy them up - I wouldn't either unless I had been specifically asked and it wasn't a regular thing - I don't see tidying up after the parents as my duty, Sorry.

sorry - that should read
''want to know if i wasn;t living up to expectations''

did you not discuss what nursery duties the nanny would do/what food you like being cooked etc at the interview

suprised a nanny with 20yrs exp doesnt do things like chnage bed sheets/polish shoes/remove cup of milk

but

agree agree with drinkyour milk, i dont pick up after parents and i leave toys out in the garden (if garden toys) and if they were indoor toys then you should have brought them in as you left them there

I hope I didn't give the wrong impression in that i expect her to tidy up after us... we left DD's bike out by mistake - it is most unuusal for us - but the nights had drawn in, and once it was forgotten, it meant I couldn't actually see it (as it is dark when I leave and return). When I noticed it on my first day off, 4 days later - I was just stunned, that she must have stood at the window making tea for 3 days and never thought to go get it!

I would generally make an effort to make sure the kitchen was tidy, dishwasher empty etc, food in the house and so on - just because I take the view that she's coming to work, and it would be disrepectful to get anyone to wade through any domestic squalor!

I find the idea of making a list a bit depressing. I would actually feel quite embarrassed specifically asking her to take my Daug's stale milk downstairs and wash it up - isn't it obvious that this is the right thing to do (bearing in mind DD is 3, not 13!)

Similary, asking her to wipe down my D's toddler table every so often - or tidy up my D's dvds or books.... should she really need to be specifically asked to do this sort of stuff?

Thanks for the reply - it is really helpful. This is only my second nanny, and I do wonder if my expectations are unrealistic. I am a very keen cook, and like to cook from scratch - so can perhaps see that expecting nanny to make homemade pizza dough is unfair - but I had expected her to find herself useful things to do while DD is at nursery (rather than just surfing the net!)

Agree with blondes that it should have been laid out at the interview so that Nanny was clear with her duties.

But even so.... I would expect a nanny with 20 years experience to have a bit more initiative and to know what 'nanny duties' entailed. Until I got to the 20 years experience bit I thought you were talking about an 18-21 year old in their first nanny job.

FWIW I do 31½ hours over 3 days for 2 children with the youngest at pre school for 2½ hours a day. I change their beds weekly and wash their sheets and clothes and iron them. I hoover and polish/tidy their bedrooms weekly. I try and keep their toys/art stuff in some sort of order. I tidy/sort all the garden toys out. Organise their book shelves. I cook all food from fresh (including soups ). I've even been known to clean out the fridge/sort the utility room/tidy the garage if I have some spare time after all the above - though sometimes a cup of tea and my book wins I must admit that I rarely clean shoes

Even when the children are at home in the school holidays I still get most of the above done.

I suggest you have a chat and run over with her what you feel 'nanny duties' should include. One of the benefits of having a nanny is so that these jobs are done and you get more time with your children when you are not working.

Thanks nbee - do you want a job?

I know I can do an awful lot myself when DD is at preschool or even when she is not, because lets face it, one 3yr old is no big deal - but I am usually aiming for jobs I would never expect a nanny to tackle - like cleaning out the fridge

I may be available in September when the youngest starts school

My mb will fight to the death to keep me until then though

lol - I suppose the thing which annoys me is I did discuss at the interview the sort of nursery duties I expected....

I also provided a huge list of the things DD ate - not that she has made any attempt to ever cook them....

A big part of the problem I think (esp for someone who is in your home, looking after your LO) is I just suspect she is taking the proverbial!! Which ain't a great basis for a nannying relationship....

washwithcare- I think she is just lazy- sorry! Surely, one of the main advantages of a nanny is that you can return from work to a house with some degree of order and that she can help with some of the domestic chores (relating to the children). If she has 2 1/2 hours child free a day, she should be able to manage to keep the house tidy (ie tidying toys away/ unstaking dishwasher), perform usual nursery duties (DD's laundry and ironing, changing sheets, cleaning room, etc). during that time. One three year old child isn't such hard work! I would definitely speak to her and explain your expectations. I am sure there are lots of fantastic, hard working nannies out there!

The fact that your 3 year old loves her to bits is a huge plus though. I'm sure you'd rather things this way than a nanny that got all the jobs done but didn't engage with your daughter.

This is a problem that can be sorted though. Either have a sit down and talk things through with her or drop the odd job on her week by week until she is doing the things that you most want done.

Tell her the ingredients are in the fridge to make a cottage pie. Stop buying convenience foods or when you are having a day to day chat drop into the cnversation that you are trying to have a health kick for 2010 and that the convenience food is there for emergencies.

The next week ask her to change the sheets and fill the wash load up with dd's towels etc. When she's done so tell her what a help it's been and with a big smile ask her to do it weekly/fortnightly.

Mention that the toy/art cupboard has got jumbled and would she mind giving it a good sort whilst dd is at nursery. When she's done it you smile and say how much easier it will be to keep it tidy now that it's all sorted out.

With any luck she'll pick up on the fact that she should have been doing things like this anyway.

"expecting nanny to make homemade pizza dough is unfair" - surely not, I've been know to make that. Made cakes today, a very mild lamb curry, bread (using the bread maker so that was cheating rather a lot). Cooking is part of the job of a nanny, isn't it? While a nanny may not be a highly skilled chef, I do feel that they should be trying to make things... children often love to help with cooking.

Have you directly asked her to make specific things for your DD's lunch (lunch I see as being the main meal of the day usually for a pre-school aged child - it's often when they will eat most I find), perhaps asking her to make something specific will spur her on to doing more cooking.

Nannynick - I have given her a list of things DD's likes - there is also frozen (homemade) dough in the freezer - and I have dropped this fact into the conversation. To no avail...

I also suggested once, I've invited X (another preschooler) on a playdate - could you cook them their supper? If it had been me, wiht a guest to please, I would have shown off with supper and dessert... So she went to Iceland and bought frozen pizza. No vveg, no side salad - just reheatable pizza. I kid you not.

She said at interview, she enjoyed baking - but no evidence yet!

I have tried to encourage her... I asked her one week to change the sheets - thanked her nicely... then I asked the next week... thanked her nicely... then on the third week, i said nothing... so she didn't change the sheets... I suppose I'm meant to say, please change the sheets every week...

But tbh, I just find it exhausting... the hassle of thinking of a weekly to do list just outweighs the help it would be to get it done...

I also wonder about what is really her job and what is not... I have a 3 year old so her bedroom window and the living room window is constantly covered in... err 3 year old type grubby marks... Is it reasoanble to ask a nanny to wipe it off...or shoudl I ask the cleaner? In practice, I'm the only person who ever seems to do it... If I was a nanny, I think I would jsut do it...

I have a stressful job and manage a team at work, so the last thing I want to do is come home and micro-manage the cleaner and nanny....

I an also worried about getting into the situation of trying to out-wit the nanny (for example, by not keeping convenience food). Most of the convenience stuff in my house is my own homemade frozen batches, so it would be hard to get rid of it anyway...

I did however get into this trying to think ahead of the previous nanny - and I just think it was more stress than it was worth...

We could have a word with her, I suppose - but this week we have already been raising other concerns (unrelated to this), and I don't want to be constantly complaining... but I am hacked off!

Will the nanny also have sole charge of the new baby too WashWithCare?

It wouldn't occur to me to clean the window in the children's bedroom. Mind you I am a bloke, so can I use that as an excuse for not noticing that such things need doing.

Easiest in my view if everyone just chips in as and when they can. When doing the washing, I do what ever fits with the wash colour, not only children's clothes. Dishwasher gets put on by whomever has put the last few items in it.

You don't want to be micro managing, your nanny should be able to see a bit better what needs doing. No one will be perfect but she sounds worse than me!

nannynick - even for a bloke I bet you are pretty good!

I will be off on maternity leave for at least 6 mths, so I would imagine LO will mostly be with me, as I will bf. However, I would hope nanny can take charge when I need a sleep etc. I have no family help, so that will be good, however, principal job will be to maintain DD's routine.

As a nanny i would tidy up anything that needed to be done to do with the children, cook healthy meals + bake cakes etc, laundry, beds etc as its all part of the job
I probably wouldnt go as far as windows as thats the cleaners job imo
I would certainly tidy art stuff and books, dvds ets when there is free time

I'm a nanny and my youngest charge is now at nursery in the mornings. My situation is slightly different because this wasn't the case when I started the job but if you discussed nursery duties at interview and she took job on knowing this then she should be doing jobs around the house.

How long does the nursery run take off the 2 1/2 hrs? I presume your nanny also has a break at some point during this time. At a guess this would leave her, say, about 1hr 40 ish? to do nursery duties, still lots of time. I know lots of nannies and we often have the 'what should I do, don't want to start something' conversation regards certain tasks in our workplace. This is because often when you do things to help out it becomes one of your jobs when you don't feel it is part of the job description. You really have to have a chat with your nanny about this so you both know exactly where you stand and what you expect of each other.

I am not the neatest, tidiest person in the world but I make an effort to leave my employers home tidy, however I expect my workplace to, on the whole, be that way for me. I do not think it is my job to tidy up my employers mess and I don't leave them any mess from me/mess kids have made under my charge.

When it comes to tidy bookshelves/art boxes etc I will tidy these occassionally but I try to teach the children to maintain the tidiness rather than have them make a mess which miracously becomes tidy again and they never learn to clean up after themselves. I have clear outs less frequently as time goes on because I find it so disheartening when it is messed up again in a couple of weeks or even days.

With the milk, is it from evening or morning? Does nanny wake your dd and bring her downstairs? I would view bringing the milk cup downstairs and washing it up as the job of person who comes downstairs with child, as otherwise that person is leaving it for the other iyswim!

With regards food/cooking, if there are lots of cooked meals in fridge does she think they are there to be eaten by your daughter or did she agree to cook and now does not? Perhaps it's a cooking for 1 issue, where she gives food that is there rather than end up cooking more than one 3yr old can eat?

HTH

With the milk, is it from evening or morning? Does nanny wake your dd and bring her downstairs? I would view bringing the milk cup downstairs and washing it up as the job of person who comes downstairs with child, as otherwise that person is leaving it for the other iyswim!

Thanks for that... and i do see what you mean.

It is evening milk - but the mornings are pretty frantic for us and about getting out the door, and dealing with immediate demands, and I would generally forget to bring it down.... Inversely, nanny doesn't always clear away DD's supper pans/plates, and although I think she should organise herself better so it is all done by 6pm, I wouldnt' dream of leaving them for her!

I think leaving the house as you expect to find it, is as a good starting place... and certainly what we aim for... however, I think it is fair enough to expect a domestic contribution as part of the job too.

I suppose when DD was tiny (different nanny btw), I was delighted to come back and find her happy and the place not too bad... However, I suppose now I know that you can get a lot of jobs done with just one 3 yr old, and it's a 5 min nursery run, so even with a break - you get a good shot of child-free time to do stuff.

I suppose my expectation is that for at least the child-free hour, a "good nanny" would look for helpful things to do - my ideal would be someone who noticed the milk was low and popped to the shop, or who wiped the mark off the window (I don't mean she wld clean all the windows!), or who made up a batch of spag bol for supper and froze some portions for me to use on one my days!

People often assume that having a nanny makes it easier, but I tend to think that is more work for me than sending her to a nursery. I'm the only person who buys arts and crafts stuff, books or toys - the house is used more and ends up messier, so it's either me organsiing a cleaner or doing it myself, and I seem to do all the cooking - where as in a nursery they would make her a proper lunch.

Hmmm... I suppose actually thinking it through i am maybe a bit jealous! Nanny arrives, plays pooh sticks in the park with my LO, feeds her the lunch I made, 15 mins ironing, then sits on her bum for a nice 2 hour break, reading my Ideal Home Magazines and surfing my internet, before collecting LO and sitting down to watch DVDs with her in the afternoon, and giving her the dinner I made - and then buggers off for a good night sleep....

Meanwhile, on what I laughingly call my "day off", I'm frantically trying to juggle doing the family iron whilst LO watches Cbeebies, before I make up batches of food as there is nothing in the freezer! Then running round like a blue bottomed tit to make best use of the childfree time...

Actually thinking about it in those terms, if Nanny then told me, "But of course I leave the milk smelling in the room all day - it's the job of the person who got up with the child at 5.30am this morning" (as is sometimes the case) - I think I would feel even more miffed!

You need to speak to her. You shouldn't need to repeat same things every day but ive her some idea of what it is you want doing and spell it out clearly.

That should be enough, if not you will have to think about daily lists. Not ideal as more work for you (although maybe writing a list less work than clearing up after her?) And it would be a case of weighing up if her skills with your dd out weigh the inconvenience of having to micromanage her

Sounds like your nanny is the kind that will only do things when asked/prompted, which is a PITA for you as you hired her to get on with it, not to manage her on top of everything else in your life! Could you have a meeting with her and present her with a weekly checklist? Everything on it should be under the remit of normal nursery duties and could be done in the 2 or so child free hours (or with your DD as activities ie cooking), so if she balks at it she is just lazy! Something along the lines of Day 1: wash sheets and towels and give bedroom/playroom a quick tidy, sort art stuff and toys, prepare dinner (half to use half to freeze) and bake a cake/muffins. Day 2: Do DD laundry, cook a dinner (half for now, half for freezer), give windows/lounge/playroom a quick once over. Day 3: Iron and put away laundry, cook dinner (etc etc) and bake or cook something special with DD.

Then have a list of normal everyday stuff like bringing the milk down, straightening the areas used at the end of the day, ensure no dishes etc are left.

I hate seeing nannies get away with the very bare minimum. Pure laziness. I work 12-16 hours a day, with a fairly demanding 7 month old, I run the household, manage other staff, cook dinners, keep diaries, do a flaming ton of work, and my bosses come home to a clean and happy baby and household. I do it, and do it well, as it's my job. It annoys me no end when other nannies can't even do the most basic and menial tasks required of them.

What you've described is not how it should ( or at least can) be with a nanny. Having done both work + nursery and work + nanny, I can promise that when it works it is much easier. Our nanny changes the children's bedding and towels each week, does all their washing, cooks for them and keeps their rooms neat and tidy. She has a bit of a blind spot where the art stuff is concerned, and isn't really keen on doing big sort outs, but I don't mind that. When I get home the kitchen is spotless and the only mess is whatever is being used at the time. She used to tidy that before I got home until I told her to stop as I'd rather the children were playing with it.

It sound like you don't want to rock the boat, and I understand that - really hard to manage the employee relationship when said employee also cares for your child. But I agree that trying to outwit her would be exhausting. Can you schedule a proper review with her where you go through everything with her, pointing out what she does well, giving her a chance to highlight where she thinks things could work differently? If you're pregnant, things will change when you go on ML and you will want a different kind of support, so I think this would be a good opportunity to start with a clean slate and draw up a list of things that would help you.

Washwithcare -

I honestly think it's time for a review - regardless of how long she has been there.

You can do it under the guise of preparing yourselves for maternity leave and addition of a new charge.
Use the oportunity to introduce a new contract which includes a fairly comprehensive list of the tasks/duties you expect her to achieve (I know it's a pain - but this way it only needs doing once and you will have officially documented everything). If you need help thinking of everything give a shout on here - you've loads of great nannies and experienced nanny employers to give you a hand.
You can also address any other issues you have with her (it sounded as if there may be others)
I would also take the opportunity to tell her how fab you think she is with your daughter - it's always nice to hear!
If you were thinking of giving her a pay rise with the new baby - which is by no means compulsary! It's never happened to me, but has with some friends - this would be a good time to tell her too.

If the worst happens and she doesn't like it then with your maternity leave looming you will be able to spend the time needed finding another nanny.

BTW - Sorry I took what you said about tidying the garden toys the wrong way, it's a pretty common attitude and annoys me intensely!

Best of luck