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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

It's not working out with the AP

80 replies

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 13:54

Our au pair has been with us for four weeks and it's just not working. She has sole charge of a four-year-old for three days a week while I am at work. I don't feel she has bonded with him at all. She seems to resent doing any housework and does it badly. I don't think she can cook, although she tells me she can. She hardly communicates with us at all. I am going to give her two weeks' notice, but I'm not proposing to pay her for those two weeks because I won't ask her to do any work. Has anyone else had to sack their au pair? I'm really not looking forward to it, but I think it has to be done.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Heqet · 16/12/2009 13:58

can you really not pay her for those 2 weeks?

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 13:59

Anyone wanting hard hats, I have all the latest styles and colours for very reasonable prices.

Clara, assuming you are in the UK and your "aupair" is actually your employee, you can not just sack her on the spot without going through some kind of disciplinary procedure (i.e. verbal warning, written warning, dismissal) unless she has done something which would constitute gross negligence like given your toddler G&Ts for lunch and then sent him out to dance naked in the street.

Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 16/12/2009 13:59

I think you should pay her for the 2 weeks regardless of whether she works or not

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 14:03

Does this au pair know that you are dissatisfied with the level care and her standard of cooking? As her employer, I feel you have a duty to try to work through this and make a reasonable effort to provide a bit off on the job training. For example, if she is struggling to cook, show her how. If she refuses to learn, then you can discipline her.

Regarding housework, does her contract say she does housework? Has she signed it?

Original poster

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 14:04

There is no contract as such. She's not performing her duties adequately. I am giving her notice so she's not being made suddenly homeless. Her room is part of her pay, so is getting paid for two weeks but not getting pocket money. Well, that was my thinking, but I'm interested in other views as I'm not really sure how to handle this, which is why I posted.

OP posts:

Original poster

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 14:06

AtheneNoctua - I thought I might need a hard hat for this thread! By the way, I didn't think I was an 'employer', I thought I was a 'host'. And how could I discipline her if there is no 'policy' in place?

OP posts:

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 14:11

So, you are going to tell this girl on the spot that she no longer has a job. (and I'm assuming she does not yet know you are dissastified with her performance so I don't know otherwise) And then you are going to leave her in your house for two weeks unsupervised. Oh, and you are going to do this for Christmas.

Now, I don't know what she has done. But if it isn't bad enough to fire her on the spot for endangering the welfare of your children, then I'd have to say you are not being reasonable here.

In fact, you are making me look like nanny employer of the year (which will no doubt horrify several people on this thread).

Libra · 16/12/2009 14:15

I agree with AN (Hi AN).

You simply cannot just sack an employee without giving them a formal warning and giving them the chance to improve their performance.

I am afraid that you are not a host either - there is no such thing as an au pair any more. You are an employer and you need to warn this girl, not just sack her.

Talk to her. Maybe she is as miserable as you are and just wants to go home for Christmas and stay there. But I think that you will have to pay her for her notice period in that case.

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 14:16

The term "au pair" is actually a thing of the past. Today, if you have someone living in your house and looking after your children, doing housework, etc. she is your employee. You are legally obligated to provide her with a contract within 4 weeks of the start of her employment (so I suggest you get onto this pronto to cover your own behind).

I also suggest you brush up on unfair dismissal and make sure you don't cross the line.

Incidentally I did once send an au pair/nanny packing on a moments notice. But, she had done some pretty bad stuff, not the least of which was threaten to leave on her own whilst I was at work (presumable leaving my 14 month old unsupervised). I considered that thtreat a complete breakdown in trust and gave her less than a day to pack her things and go. She had actually already resigned. I just expedited the departure when she threatened to walk out.

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 14:19

waves to Libra

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 14:20

slight hijack

I was in Aberdeen yesterday. Bloody miserable it was. I'll be back week of 12/01. Fancy meeting up for dinner?

xoxcherylxox · 16/12/2009 14:21

is that not the point of the notice period to give you notice that you will no longer haev a job and give you time to look for a new one and try and sort your money out. i think 2 weeks notice with no pay isnt fair. your employer would never do that. whats the point in giving notice when what your doing regarding pay is the same as being sacked on the spot.

Libra · 16/12/2009 14:22

Yes, that would be good.

Bloody miserable a good description of Aberdeen at moment. Getting dark already. But we are promised snow for Christmas! (Like they promised us a barbecue summer)

(Sorry for hijack)

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 14:25

I would also like to point out that if you had an agreed contract she/he would probably have a better understanding of your expectations and you would have an understanding of what she is/isn't willing to do.

Is it possible she took the job thinking it was about childcare and you offered the job thinking it was also about housework?

Millarkie · 16/12/2009 14:25

You are an employer and as such you are in a vunerable position since you should have provided a contract. You cannot sack her and refuse to pay her for a fortnight without running the risk that she will get legal advice and sue you for unfair dismissal and witheld pay and notice. This does happen... 'au pairs' are live-in employees these days and have employment rights (although are exempt from minimum wage as all live-in employees are)
be fair.. Tell her it's not working out and give her a paid notice period. She will be entitled to pro rata holiday pay too.
And on another note, it is rare to find an 'au pair' who can cope with sole charge full days for a preschooler. Generally they have no childcare training and little sole charge experience. If you want quality childcare get a live-in nanny or use a childminder

Northernlebkuchen · 16/12/2009 14:26

So you've got this lass providing what? 8-10 hours care a day for your small child whilst you're at work for three days a week and what she gets is a room and pocket money? No wonder she's pissed off with you!

What you have there is a nanny not an au pair!Sole charge for three days a week is above and beyond any au pair duties and you expect housework done as well?

Pay this girl proper notice pay and then reconsider your options. You're never going to make this set up work because slavery is illegal!

Bonsoir · 16/12/2009 14:36

What are you doing giving an au pair sole charge of four year old and expecting her to do cooking and housework too? That's a nanny-housekeeper job...

GypsyMoth · 16/12/2009 14:36

can i ask where you hired her from?

RainRainGoAway · 16/12/2009 14:40

I don't understand OP. It seems like she has a hell of alot of childcare duties for an Au Pair. Was this part of the contract?
My friend was an au pair and she was expected to help with 3 kids for 3 hours a day 5 days a week. For this she got bed/board and about £50 a week (this was 10 years ago).
The duties were light housework to do with the childrends clothes/room cleaning etc and riding the owners horse. I think you are asking a bit too much.

muddleduck · 16/12/2009 14:51

you cannot treat someone like this.

Original poster

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 14:57

I found her on Au Pair World. She was with another family but wasn't happy there. I think she came to our house because it's only one child. He is at school during the day, the housework is related to him (tidying up and hoovering) and she prepares his supper and her own, this is generally just heating things up, she hasn't cooked anything from scratch. She has a long weekend every weekend and I really don't see it as exploitation. She has a nice room in a very convenient part of London, and she gets paid money as well.

OP posts:

AtheneNoctua · 16/12/2009 15:04

I think the slavery comment was a tad out of line since we don't know how many hours she works and how much you pay her. But the crux of it is that even if you didn't realise it, she is your employee.

Are you sure this is beyond repair? I would write up a contract with a detailed job description, and I would sit down for a long serious job of explaining what the job entails and what you expect. And then I would give her a couple of days to decide if she wants the job. She might just bugger off at Christmas saving you the unpleasant chore of letting her go (the legal way -- not on the spot without pay).

I would hand her stach of about ten sutable recipes and tell her to cook them or something similar. I would also ask her to start completing a nanny diary (if she doesn't already). I'm not sure what to suggest about the bonding issues as I don't really know what they are.

One four year old for three days where he is in school most of the day is not my idea of a hard job. So your dissatisfaction may be perfectly warranted.

But, if you do let her go, you have to do it within the limits of law (notice period, as per signed contract, with pay, etc.)

muddleduck · 16/12/2009 15:05

So how would you feel if your employer sacked you with no notice having never given you any indication that they were not happy with your work?

ffs

Totallyfloaty35 · 16/12/2009 15:35

Calm down everyone, op has stated that child is at school so in fact before and after school care is def in aupair contracts.
But you should pay her something,i know its galling to pay someone who is not doing whats asked of them.So get her to sort out cupboards etc while she works notice and give her some money, maybe offer to pay towards her going home for Xmas,it means she might leave happier.Also please get a contract and put in that if either party believes its not working within the first 8wks they can give notice of 1 wk to terminate without comeback.

Northernlebkuchen · 16/12/2009 16:05

Am hugely relieved to read that the op was referring to before and afterschool care! I therefore retract the 'slavery' comment which was based on what she said in her first post 'She has sole charge of a four-year-old for three days a week while I am at work.'

Still think it would utterly awful to try sacking her without proper notice and procedures though.

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