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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

It's not working out with the AP

80 replies

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 13:54

Our au pair has been with us for four weeks and it's just not working. She has sole charge of a four-year-old for three days a week while I am at work. I don't feel she has bonded with him at all. She seems to resent doing any housework and does it badly. I don't think she can cook, although she tells me she can. She hardly communicates with us at all. I am going to give her two weeks' notice, but I'm not proposing to pay her for those two weeks because I won't ask her to do any work. Has anyone else had to sack their au pair? I'm really not looking forward to it, but I think it has to be done.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 16:11

Make sure you pay for her flight home - you appear to have forgotten it's Christmas next week.

giraffespullthesleigh · 16/12/2009 16:16

YABVU At least discuss things with her first and explain your concerns.

Original poster

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 17:01

Thanks for all your views, I've certainly got more to think about now. She doesn't want to go home for Christmas, btw. She's planning on getting another job for the holiday period while she's living with me, but I'm guessing she won't expect me to pay her as she won't be working for me - what do you think???? I wish there was a handbook about hiring au pairs that explained all the pitfalls. I thought I had done as much research on the internet beforehand as I could, but it seems most of the info I have is out of date!

OP posts:

mistletoekisses · 16/12/2009 18:17

Clara - Put simply, the girl is living in your house. You dont want the next two weeks to be uncomfortable - which they will be if you dont pay her.

I had an au pair not work out about 3 months ago. She gave notice to us out of the blue; and then proceeded to tell the agency a bunch of lies about why she was leaving us - made us out to not be a very nice host family . The trust broke down and we basically told the agency that she was not welcome to stay in our house for her notice period. But we paid her two weeks pay and also covered travel costs if she wanted to go back to Paris.

I am sorry the au pair isnt working out - but you will be in the wrong to not pay her the two weeks she is due IMO.

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 16/12/2009 18:21

You can't give her notice and not pay it.

AU pairs are not meant to have sole charge are they?

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 16/12/2009 18:22

No contract = ridiculous employer. WHy on earth would you not have one?

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 16/12/2009 18:25

I can't believe you. You say about her room and what she has to do and that "she gets money as well." er yes, it is called a wage for the job she has done. You pay her and she gets pocket money too. I have no idea why you are separating the two things. It might be called pocket money but it is a wage

nannynick · 16/12/2009 18:35

Do you really want her living with you but working elsewhere?

Which country she is from may make a difference as to employee status - as per a recent thread on here, if she is from Romainia or Bulgaria then she would need to have completed the BR3 form thingy, so employment status may be different.

If you were the au-pair, how would you like to be treated?
ACAS - www.acas.gov.uk - can give you free advice with regard to employment law and how that affects someone from the EU working in the UK... should you want to have a chat with someone.

Original poster

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 19:46

We don't have a contract because I didn't know we needed one. There was a contract on Au Pair World but it looked so out of date I thought it would be not worth having. We do have a list of duties which I gave her. I asked her to put at the bottom a contact number for her in case of emergency, but she never did that. She gave her last family 2 weeks notice. I can't really see why I can't just give her 2 weeks notice and 2 weeks pay.

I don't particularly want her living here and working elsewhere, that was her idea. She was assuming that since I was going to be off work she was free to do something else.

She is from an EU country.

I don't think she likes me much either, btw, if that makes any difference!

I did read on a website (which I now can't find - typical) that you can't make someone homeless. In two weeks she should be able to sort out an alternative, I would have thought.

OP posts:

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 16/12/2009 19:50

You originally said you wanted to give her 2 weeks notice and no pay.

Original poster

ClaraZ · 16/12/2009 20:10

That's what I was thinking of, but you people have changed my mind....

OP posts:

GypsyMoth · 16/12/2009 20:37

in 2 normal weeks then yes,she may well have found a new position....but its christmas!! how do you see that working out?

frakkinaroundthechristmastree · 16/12/2009 20:41

Sit her down with a contract, go through what the job entails, prepare an hour by hour handbook of what you expect, tell her that she can sign or she's working out 1 week's notice (which is all you have to give before a year is up) and you're sorted.

Guidance on notice from direct.gov.uk

For future reference you need to provide your au pair with a written statement of employment within a certain period of time and then a formal contract. You can find out pretty much everything you'll need to know from ACAS or on direct.gov.uk. Standard notice is 1 month, which can be reduced to 1 week for a probationary period.

MammyT · 16/12/2009 20:47

It sounds to me that you haven't had any rational discussions with her about her failings as an au pair. If you sat down and provided some clear feedback and coaching, do you not think she could improve?

If there truly is no hope, then I'd give her notice and pay her for 2 more weeks and offer to pay her flight home for Christmas. She hasn't been negligent so I don't think you have grounds for anything less.

cinnamonbun · 17/12/2009 19:12

Agree with other posts. You are being incredibly unreasonable, selfish and tight!

cinnamonbun · 17/12/2009 19:20

"She has a nice room in a very convenient part of London, and she gets paid money as well."

You make it sound as if she should be grateful that you've actually paid her MONEY so far.
You live in a very convenient part of London and you can't afford to pay this girl two week's notice??! Wow...

Original poster

ClaraZ · 17/12/2009 21:41

Cinnamonbun, some people have made very constructive comments on this thread which have helped me as I try to work through this extremely tricky situation.

OP posts:

nighbynight · 17/12/2009 22:03

Clara, I would try the constructive talk first. If that doesnt work, then give the notice, but you must pay her.

I would not go along with her getting another job while she is living in your house - wtf is that all about???

In germany, it's not uncommon for APs to be put up in a hotel for the notice period. Clearly, the host family doesnt want them in the house, but can't under the terms of the contract make them homeless...the agency looks out for this. could you find a hostel that wouldnt be too expensive?

Original poster

ClaraZ · 17/12/2009 22:46

I did say somewhere at some point in this thread that I had decided to pay her two weeks' notice, after reading some of the posts. As for her getting another job - well that was her idea, she asked me when I was going to be off work as she was thinking of getting another temporary job while I was off work and she wouldn't be looking after the child. I don't know if she has come up with anything, I'll have to ask her tomorrow (as I say, she doesn't talk to me). Do you think she will still expect me to pay her her weekly amount?? Even if she is employed elsewhere and not available to us??? That'll be interesting!

OP posts:

catepilarr · 17/12/2009 23:25

well i guess it depends on what you agreed - she is entitled to some payed holidays on the other hand i think having another job is something an aupair should discuss with you and you need to be happy with it.

Metrobaby · 18/12/2009 09:17

claraz - it is very sad to hear that your AP isn't working out.

I was in a very similar situation in Sept with my new AP. She was useless and didn't seem to be bonding with the children. After a week I wanted to dismiss her. However after some good advice on this board, I sat down with her and went through my expectations and also listened to her side of things. It turned out she was very homesick and hadn't realised what an AP really did entail, and was finding it difficult to settle in. For her moving to a new house, new country with strangers was a big thing for her. She ended up taking everything on board and she is still with us!

For us, I thought my AP was a geniunely nice girl but a bit clueless, so for us it was worth making an effort first. As she improved, we didn't have to dismiss her. Admittedly she is not 100% perfect - and sometimes I have to remind her to do certain things - but overall her strengths outweigh her weaknesses. In her case she just took longer to adapt than our previous AP.

If you decide however, that it really isn't working with your AP, then give her her notice with accrued holiday. You can decide during this notice period if you want her to work or not. If she manages to find another host family or alternative employment you could ask her then to leave immediately but would still have to pay her for any outstanding notice + holiday

nighbynight · 18/12/2009 19:35

Yes, I would not underestimate the simple ignorance of what you expect. Some AP agencies dress the job up as being an older sister to the children, without mentioning anything that sounds like hard work.
Here in germany, there are a lot of APs who change in the first few weeks, as the shock of having to do some work sets in.

Clara, I was just surprised that you'd let her live in your house and moonlight with another job. I wouldnt automatically rule it out - it would depend on the AP and what job she had, but I cant say Id be keen.

xoxcherylxox · 18/12/2009 21:53

is she maybe getting another job as you are on holiday and not needing her and she thinks she wont get paid so wants another job for that week so she has a wage

Julesnobrain · 18/12/2009 22:54

ClaraZ. Presumably as your AP is now talking of getting a job elsewhere you have already told her you no longer want her working for you???. Personally I would tell her it is not practical for her to work elsewhere and live in your home. Either she gets a live in position elsewhere or moves into a hostel at her own cost. However as its Xmas I would give her 3 weeks to find a new job ie by Sat 9th Jan and I would pay her for those 3 weeks. I would set her a specific list of jobs to do each day whilst living in your home and looking for alternative work or give her the choice to leave with the notice money. For future AP's you should write a contract. It does not have be complicated, more common sense really with a schedule of expected activities attached. I am sure lots of Mums on here could share their version with you

dreamingofawhitexmasteamgirl · 23/12/2009 22:04

Hi ClaraZ

I was totally misled by the agency I used re my AP also
I was never told I was an employer or that I had to pay annual leave, and her paperwork didnt mention it either. They never told me about contracts or anything liek that either. In fact if I hadnt lurked/ posted on here I would have known absolutely nothing about any of it either.
Not sure where one stands on ignorance as an excuse, but as I even ASKED my AP agency that I paid a lot of money to, all these questions and was told I didnt have to consider it... Frustrating.

My AP has just gone after being with me for 3 months. We limped on from a poor start and it never really worked out and I am so glad she is gone TBH.

I like Jules' suggestion about giving her notice till afetr Christmas to be fair to her, or giving her 2 weeks notice for work, but an additional weeks free board if you are feeling charitable.

I do wish people wouldnt jump on the 'what you pay her £x for all that work?! Slavery!!' line. It is utter bollox, and usually said by people who have no clue of the REAL cost of having an sullen teenager in your house!!

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