Depressed nanny

[KatyH]

Hello,

we've had our nanny for about 3 months now. It turns out she is depressed and tried to hurt herself yesterday. She is off sick today and going to see the doctor. I'm worried that due to financial pressures she will try to come back to work when she isn't really fit to. Does anyone know whether I can force her to get signed off?

I completely agree with Athene here - obviously you have to operate within the law, but the children's welfare must be any right thinking mother's priority here.

There is a first time for everything.

I agree with Athene wholeheartedly too. There is no way I would want someone who is in such a difficult state of mind to look after my child. Depression is one thing. Actively moving towards self harm- using scissors, quite a violent thing to use!- is another thing. Obviously this woman needs help, & it's very sad, but given the employment has been for less than a year this would be a no-brainer for me.

Incidentally, depression can be a label for all sorts of different problems. There is mild depression, there is much more intense depression. And then there is self harm & potential suicidal actions. I think this woman's depression is not mild & under control, not at the moment, and no amount of pills will quickly resolve the problem, I'm sorry. These processes take time & they're not just a matter of taking pills! I wouldn't want all that going on around my child. However much the woman would want to separate her feelings from her work, it's not at all easy to do, not when the work is so emotionally charged as work with children can be from time to time. It's different surely from working in an office. Sorry to be blunt but that's how I would feel about it.

And, the way I see it, this is not about the child potentially 'modelling' the scissor self harming, that wouldn't be so much my concern. What I would be concerned about is the general underlying atmosphere of a severely depressed & suicidal person being so close to my child.

After the arm chunks thing, I would dismiss her, end of. Child safety first, legal niceties second. I doubt she would get very far in a tribunal after the arm thing.

Not sure there are any legal niceties, to be honest. With employment under a year, it should be pretty straightforward.

Athene - some of what you have said is just plain daft imo.

OP - you must put your children first. People with mental illnesses can look after children perfectly well - 1000s of mothers do it every day - but if you already had concerns about her ability to supervise you should be dealing with that as well as the nanny not feeling great at the moment.

you say she's lovely etc etc...but you don't really 'know' her do you?

12 weeks? and you feel you owe her something?
you need to put your family first here and think about this. she won't be her true self when you're around anyway,so you don't really know her at all,and you entrust your children to her? and are considering still doing this in light of what you already know about her mental health?

i hope we don't read further about this in any news headlines in the media...

fab: I'm sorry but when mothers have difficulties (including depression) that's one thing, and can too be very difficult, leading to the need for more support & help for the mother etc (in some cases). But employing someone to look after your children who just tried to take their life with scissors?! I'm sorry, that's a completely different thing & you're the one who's being daft by not seeing this. It's not about the nanny not feeling great at the moment!!!! It's about her trying to use scissors to cut her wrists. Big difference.

With due respect, I am not being daft. I do know what I am talking about.

I'm sorry, but what exactly do you think it proves when you say 'I do know what I am talking about'?! What's the point that you think you've just made by saying that? And if other people choose to not want to disclose personal details about their work experience of depression / personal experience of depression then that's their prerogative but it doesn't mean others 'don't know what they're talking about' because they choose not to be specific about how they substantiate their opinion.

How on earth did she manage to gouge lumps out of your DD's arm, even with long nails and inappropriate grip and pressure, it would be hard to cause much harm through clothing!

Her depression isn't going to magically become under control in a few weeks, the new pills need to build up to a theraputic level and that can take time.

And as someone mentioned her demeanor, that of being down/unobservant/possible disinterested isn't something you want around young children.

I don't want to get into a discussion with you Maria. I have said all I want to say.

Fab I completely agree that many mothers with depression are perfectly capable of looking after their children. But this girl's depression is not controlled, and she should not be in sole charge of children. Looking after kids is emotionally draining at the best of times!

I am very, very concerned about the gouging of your daughter's arm incident. I don't see how this could happen by accident, I'm afraid. Sorry for brutal honesty.

This girl should not be left with your children.

Depression is scary for the person affected by it and by those that become affected by it.

A family i was working with last year employed a nanny, it was purely by accident her medication was seen (bedroom door open, meds on bedside table,child accessable (18mo).

When she needed to see the Dr for a rash, he was struck speechless on hearing she was on this medication, at the high dose she was on and in sole care of a hyper little boy, he made it very clear to the childs mother (foreign country so mother there to interpret at nanny's request) that in no way should she be in charge of a child.

As it was when told of this she decided to return home, but is scared the mother badly.

Had the mother known about the depression (which she later found out had been very severe - requiring extensive in patient treatment) she would not have offered the job.

It became a question she asked and yes, some may feel that is intrusive etc but she had to weigh up everything to ensure she made the right choice of nanny for her child.

Agree with every word Maria:

"And, the way I see it, this is not about the child potentially 'modelling' the scissor self harming, that wouldn't be so much my concern. What I would be concerned about is the general underlying atmosphere of a severely depressed & suicidal person being so close to my child.
"

Trust me, if a child were to see somebody slash their wrists it would scare the living bejesus out of them but they wouldn't be trying it themselves.

Like I've said before, the nanny this post is about obviously is in no fit state to work, and needs time out to look after herself. But I take issue with
"Had the mother known about the depression (which she later found out had been very severe - requiring extensive in patient treatment) she would not have offered the job."

If she was on medication and had shown no signs of depression then it was obviously under control (going by what you said, the depression was not known about prior to the pills being seen), a past history of depression doesn't mean that someone is still at risk. And actually being on pills IMO is more responsible than coming off them.

A history of depression does not mean someone cannot hold a job with responsibility, if it is under control, it is under control.

AGree controlled depression not necessarily an issue, but if the nanny had a history of "extensive in-patient treatment", then rightly or wrongly I would be very hesitant to hire her to look after my child.

Kaloki, that was the thing, it wasn't under control, but none of us have suffered from depression and just thought her oddities were just that, but they weren't.

It's not under control if you are actively self-harming. It's bloody out of control, just as if you were puking your guts up in the toilet after every meal or swigging a mouthful of vodka whenever it got a bit too much. Seriously guys. This is someone who is very unwell.

Psychiatric illness to this degree and the professional care of very young children are completely incompatible and the nanny needs to be removed from the situation and told to get help immediately.

"Kaloki, that was the thing, it wasn't under control, but none of us have suffered from depression and just thought her oddities were just that, but they weren't."

Ah ok, it didn't come across in your original post so I apologise.

I'm a little sensitve about depression and jobs, after one ex-manager tried to sack me for having depression.

"It's not under control if you are actively self-harming."

I wasn't talking about the OP's nanny, and have never said her depression is under control.

My first childminder had severe post natal depression that she had not notified me of prior to her employment.

It was not possible to retain her as she was completely unable to be in sole charge of a child for various reasons.

Although its not nice to have to give the girl notice, I would suggest it would make things worse for her if she is trying to recover with the added pressure of trying to get back to work for you.
Although she may not want to be given notice, I think that once it is done she would at least be able to cope with that and deal with it financially.

I appreciate I am rambling, I just don't think you are doing anyone any favours by keeping the girl on. She is ill, she needs to recover, depression is not an illness that will improve dramatically enough over "a couple of weeks" for her to be well enough to look after children on her own in my opinion.

Lou031205-unfortunately self harmers don't usually just do it once. I had a friend at school who slashed her face with a razor blade everyday for almost 3 months, her parents were in dispare, no matter what they did, she managed to find something to do this damage. She was delivered to a teacher in the morning and to her parents after school, she was monitored constantly, she still found oppertunity to do it!

And it is not just children copying, what happens if a nanny is in charge of children from 7am - 7pm and a 10am decides she can't go on and does something stupid and kills herself? Young children with a dead person in the house? Or she gases herself?

I (again) agree with AN, I wouldn't want to leave a depressed (unstable, not someone who is getting treatment!) person with children.

Katy- unfortunately you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. She is perfectly capable when she is well and treatment is going well, but not capable when it isn't. I think it is a shame for a girl to have to go through this but I also think I couldn't have someone who might lapse looking after my children. So so sorry! No advice at all, just sympathy.

Calling people daft is usually a good sign that you have run out of intelligent arguments.

This thread has me wondering something. Does the OFSTED registration take a nanny'e medical condition into account when they license him/her?