Help me decide what sort of childcare to go for in September .... longish post

[VirginBoffinMum]

I'm having dc4 in April, and by then my other kids will be dd 21 (i.e. not needing childcare any more and away at uni), ds 11 and ds 8. I work full time about 1 hour 20 minutes away from where I live. I try to work from home every Friday, so I am out the house from 8-6.30 or so from Monday to Thursday. I've also got a minor disability that affects my mobility at the moment so I get quite tired, plus obviously I'll have a five month old probably waking me up in the night as well. DH works even longer hours than me, and part-time working won't be an option for either of us for a while.

Currently I have an au pair to do the school run and various bits and pieces to help me. However I am trying to decide what to do about childcare come September when I go back to work after maternity leave, and if anyone has advice or help I would be very interested to hear it.

There is a really good nursery at work but it costs £180 a week (probably less a bit more because you can do salary sacrifice), plus I wonder if the drive would be too much for the baby. It would be nice to have the baby near me though. I would probably still need an au pair on top of this for the older boys (£80 a week plus board and associated au pair management hassle).

Another option would be a nanny for all three, but I reckon this would probably cost me about £350 a week gross. Realistically this is a little bit beyond our means, but may keep me more sane. However I am a bit worried because I have heard a nanny wouldn't give domestic help and we would need someone to be doing washing and ironing and a few errands as well (I have a cleaner once a week for the main cleaning jobs). I am also a bit worried about whether a nanny would be hard to manage and fussy. I have been wondering about trying to get a Norland trainee to avoid this, but I am not sure if this means they will be any better. That would be £158 gross a week plus an one-off agency fee of £2000.

We don't have any childminders in our area and the local after school club closes at 6 and isn't brilliant, plus they usually ration it so you only end up with 2 or 3 days a week, but only find out which days at the last minute, i.e. days before term starts, which is why we stopped trying to use it.

As I say, any thoughts or advice on all this would be very helpful indeed.

contrary to popular belief, there are nannies out there that will help around the house a bit although they tend to be the experienced rather than qualified ones.

Place an ad on gumtree or nannyjob stating that you need a nanny that is also prepared to muck in a bit with errands and light housework.

Because of the credit crunch, there are lots of nannies seeking a new job at the moment.

Where are you based? £350 gross for a 4 day a week nanny isn't unreasonable outside London - are you thinking live in or live out?

Most nannies will happily do all tidying, cooking, washing and ironing related to the children, though laundry and ironing for the parents too might be a problem. Errands like picking up dry cleaning or doing the odd bit of shopping for milk and bread should be fine too - and a nanny will do school uniform/shoes/birthday presents shopping for the children if you want.

I'd have thought a nanny would need much less management than an au pair. If I were you I would probably look for an experienced foreign nanny who wants to live in.

Thanks phraedd, that's useful info. Do you think £350 gross will attract a good person? Could I even get away with paying a bit less in a recession?

We're in East Anglia and live in might be best.

Live-in outside London, I would definitely at least start at less than £350 gross tbh. For that I would think you could get a recently qualified English girl - maybe one looking to move out of nursery work. I would think a nursery nurse would make about £300 a week gross and that's without the benefits of live-in.

I'm sure you could find an experienced (but maybe unqualified) foreign nanny with good English for £300 gross live-in.

Are we thinking that a nanny would be the best option then?

Is Gumtree better than using an agency and getting some backup? Or would an agency just try to get me to pay them as much as possible?

My view is that Nursery plus your existing Mothers Help and Cleaner may be a workable soluition, subject to your Mothers Help being able to collect your ds4 from nursery (as I don't know many nurseries that open beyond 6pm).

Costwise a live-in nanny could be similar, but you may still want to keep your cleaner on and you may want to contract out ironing (nannies in my view will often do many household tasks, but Ironing and the major weekly clean may not be that desirable). Nanny would do day-to-day tidying, washing, cooking (they may even cook for you... I made a quiche for lunch yesterday and left my boss plenty for their dinner).

You've recruited an au-pair in the past so know how to do recruitment. You also probably know that sometimes staff don't stay around for long - and if you are in a rural location you may struggle to make a job attractive to someone wanting live-in work (some may like country living, but others will want city life). With a nursery you don't have the recruitment hassle.

If you decide to go down the nanny route, then there are lots of us on here who can help advise about the recruitment process. You don't need to use an agency. You can insist on an Ofsted Registered Nanny, and thus use Childcare Vouchers as part-payment, as you would with the nursery.

What happens in school holidays? Ds1 and Ds2 will then need daytime care.
What about getting to/from school... do DS1 and DS2 do that themselves, or have your au-pair/mothers help go with them?

i advertised on gumtree a few months ago for a nanny/housekeeper. I said the hours were 8am - 6pm for £300 gross per week (live out)and got quite a few replies (including young, qualified nannies) so there is no reason by won't get someone for less hours!

As long as you check refs properly, there is no reason to use an agency

Nursery/Mothers Help/Cleaaner route sounds like a complicated set-up. Especially with a long journey to the nursery for the baby. And as NN said you have to think about school hols for the older ones.

If you can afford a nanny (sounds like you can) it seems the most sensible option and you have plenty of time to find the right person for the job.

i think 1hr 20 on a good day - so 3hrs a day is too much for a young baby to be in the car so rule out that option

a nanny seems the best bet,esp as you have older children who will need looking after/supervising in holidays

maybe get rid of the ap which would free up £50/80 a week

some nannies are happy to do light duties, if you advertise for a nanny, put in ad light housework

other thing is to remember you are thinking ahead which is good, but it is still almost a year away, and things may change by then

I had a mindee, who's mum was doing the same sort of drive everyday, it worked while he was very young, but as he got to be a toddler, he was falling asleep in the car going home, and then didn't want to go to bed till midnight, then didn't want o get up in the morning, sleeping in the car again, and then not sleeping till the journey home, if this works for you OK, but the Mum found it very hard, she only managed for 6 months, before having to get a CM nearer home, and pay for the extra hours.

Super advice this!

How does this sound for a nanny job then?

Live-in job, attractive large village 20 minutes by bike/car from very nice city centre with all amenities and nightlife. Also near mainline train station and main bus routes. 6 weeks paid holiday a year, massive double bedroom with sitting area, TV etc, and share children's bathroom, overnight guests allowed. £15,000 gross p.a. One evening's babysitting a week, very occasionally two. Nanny must be Ofsted registered.

Monday to Thursday:

7.30 Help get kids up, dressed, ready for school.
7.45 Wave ds1 off to secondary school with all necessary equipment (he will be getting himself there).
8.30 Take ds2 to school on foot (1 mile away) with baby in pram.
9.15 Back at home. Look after baby. Do children's bedrooms, playroom, children's washing and ironing as required, while baby is having naps. Bond with other nannies, go to Tumbletots, park, swimming, etc.
3.00 Go back to school to collect ds2.
4.00 Give ds2 milk and biscuits, help him with homework and music practice for about 10 minutes or so.
4.45 ds1 comes back home from secondary school by himself. Give him milk and biscuits, make sure he spends 1 hour doing his homework.
6.00 Cook dinner, something simple like pasta or quiche (kids have hot dinners at school but are still hungry)
6.30 Family dinner all together. Clear up afterwards, help mum start to get everyone ready for bed if she is very tired. Get everything ready for next day and lined up by front door, eg PE kits, uniform and so on.
7.30 Clock off

Friday:
Help mum with morning school run if she is over tired.

sounds good ad

maybe mention that weekends are free, esp as live in - would the rest of friday be free after helping with school run, ie after 9.30?

i know that the last hr is the worst with homework, tea, bath and bed - might be nice for the nanny to finish before 7.30 if you are there

sounds good ad

maybe mention that weekends are free, esp as live in - would the rest of friday be free after helping with school run, ie after 9.30?

i know that the last hr is the worst with homework, tea, bath and bed - might be nice for the nanny to finish before 7.30 if you are there

I'd do it! If I didn't have a DP and cats tying me down that is

It's quite a long day, but made up for if Fridays are mostly free.

Ah, good tip, Blondes. Fridays would usually be free unless I had a meeting or something.

I myself am usually prostrate with tiredness after coming home from work, so really would welcome an extra pair of hands at that time. DH only gets home sometime between 815 and 915, you see.

Tankie, I would say bring them all but my DH is allergic to cats!

true - many hands make light work

AND YOU BOTH CAN HAVE WInE AT 7.30 [FGRIN]

Hello again all.

It's looking like a nanny will be the best option then, from what everyone has said. I am very glad I posted, because previously I was going to go down the nursery route but I now think that is a bit impractical, and it was very helpful to hear about the experience of other mums with long car trips, etc.

I have been checking out sites like Nannyjob to see how other jobs look, and I also checked out the Norland website (I actually got the price wrong - it's a minimum of £210 pw net in the first year (going up to £300 in the second year) plus £1500 agency fee). I think it seems as though I ought to advertise on NannyJob, Gumtree, in The Lady and also via Norland to cover all the bases - does this sound sensible, or is it overkill?

Plus does anyone have any tips as to how to look like a nice family to work for??

Big thanks for all your help, by the way .

I would definitely try to advertise yourself rather than use an agency - I'm with a couple of agencies and they're all a bit rubbish tbh (even the very posh, very expensive one!).

I like adverts that a clear about the hours, duties and wages and steer away from any that say things like "our 5 month old is very intellectually advanced"

Does anyone think I could recruit a live in nanny for this much in the current market? I live in zone four in London, East side. I've been working on the premise that the starting point for me would be around £22K+, which is out of our price range at the moment.

Tankie, why do you think they're rubbish?

Harriet, that sounds a lot to me from what people have been saying on this thread - I think the credit crunch may be in both our favours.

I'm going to give it a go and see what shakes out. We have been planning what you were thinking of - a nursery, au pair, plus school for DD1 - and I got increasingly worried about our choice after we trialled an ap in October. I think this sort of combo would finish me off in terms of trying to manage it all and not at all sure we'd save any money. Would lose my nursery deposit but so what.

i think it is worth placing your own ads, and use agencies