Help me decide what sort of childcare to go for in September .... longish post

[VirginBoffinMum]

I'm having dc4 in April, and by then my other kids will be dd 21 (i.e. not needing childcare any more and away at uni), ds 11 and ds 8. I work full time about 1 hour 20 minutes away from where I live. I try to work from home every Friday, so I am out the house from 8-6.30 or so from Monday to Thursday. I've also got a minor disability that affects my mobility at the moment so I get quite tired, plus obviously I'll have a five month old probably waking me up in the night as well. DH works even longer hours than me, and part-time working won't be an option for either of us for a while.

Currently I have an au pair to do the school run and various bits and pieces to help me. However I am trying to decide what to do about childcare come September when I go back to work after maternity leave, and if anyone has advice or help I would be very interested to hear it.

There is a really good nursery at work but it costs £180 a week (probably less a bit more because you can do salary sacrifice), plus I wonder if the drive would be too much for the baby. It would be nice to have the baby near me though. I would probably still need an au pair on top of this for the older boys (£80 a week plus board and associated au pair management hassle).

Another option would be a nanny for all three, but I reckon this would probably cost me about £350 a week gross. Realistically this is a little bit beyond our means, but may keep me more sane. However I am a bit worried because I have heard a nanny wouldn't give domestic help and we would need someone to be doing washing and ironing and a few errands as well (I have a cleaner once a week for the main cleaning jobs). I am also a bit worried about whether a nanny would be hard to manage and fussy. I have been wondering about trying to get a Norland trainee to avoid this, but I am not sure if this means they will be any better. That would be £158 gross a week plus an one-off agency fee of £2000.

We don't have any childminders in our area and the local after school club closes at 6 and isn't brilliant, plus they usually ration it so you only end up with 2 or 3 days a week, but only find out which days at the last minute, i.e. days before term starts, which is why we stopped trying to use it.

As I say, any thoughts or advice on all this would be very helpful indeed.

Oh well - meeting dh not good then [jgrin]

Maybe a drink with a girlfriend or stopping at a beauty clinic(?) for a nice relaxing massage before going home to a quiet house with kids in bed and a cold glass of pinot grigio [jsmile]

The babysitting can obviously be discussed at interview too. You may have nanny with a limited social life that doesn't mind regular Saturdays or you may find a Friday night might work as she then has 2 consecutive days free.

replace the [jgrin] with an

Must go to bed!!!!

OOOH, nice relaxing massage?? You mean HAVING A LIFE??? ME TIME?? I have forgotten life can be more than working and then coming home to a house full of mess and shouty children!! I am ever so excited now.

I think that nursery plus aupair would do the trick without the complications of a nanny.

You'd have childcare "insurance" that way. I mean if the baby is poorly then can stay with aupair for the day. If the aupair is poorly then baby is fine at nursery and children are old enough to pop in to after school club. Whereas if you go for the nanny option and the nanny is poorly you will find it difficult.

aww you sound lovely virgin - a fun boss to work for - hope you find a fab nanny (alas i am taken )

Agree blondes - she does sound lovely. It's nice to see an employer thinking ahead about what they and the nanny need from this.

I know, I agree.

I actually think they should have special rules for nannies and their employers so we can pay gross and not have any tax issues at all.

I am particularly annoyed employers have to pay an extra £500 a year on top of the gross salary in extra NI contributions. This is treating us like big corporations and is a major rip off. I could be giving this to the nanny.

I meant I agree about the tax deductible thing. However I am indeed good fun, if a little grumpy at breakfast time. Last week I scooped my AP off for the day sightseeing and shopping and we had a great time. I live life to the full, and like nothing more than a good laugh and the company of kids and young people.

I really want to come and work for you now!

thinks about how to get rid of dp and the cats

quattro
I'm really curious. Have you made the au pair-nursery combo work? Because when we trialled that au pair in October I concluded that there was no way she could have been sickness backup for us(unless you mean with me working from home.) Maybe it was just her, but judging by the stories on here she was probably one of hte better au pair options, but with the best intentions in the world, just not experienced enough.

I see what you're saying and it would be great if it worked. But I'm wondering if anyone has really achieved this when one of the children in question is a baby.

VBM I can see why you're going for the nanny idea now...but would be curious to hear more from quattro.

quattro - what happens if child is sick and ap is at her school classes - how does that work?

if the nursery was closer, i might agree, but to drive a baby in car 1.20 am and pm is too much imho

yes nannies get ill, but rare, and many nannies have friends who can back up/help if need be

honestly think nany is the way to go for virgin and btw virgin wea are ALL a little grumpy in the am

That was my thinking - it's too far for the baby in the car twice a day.

I had one AP once who was great with babies but she was 24 and very experienced, and there was more often than not one of us around the house during the day at that time.

I wouldn't normally leave a baby or toddler with an au pair for longer than a hairdressing appointment, because there's just too much going on, and they haven't developed a maternal instinct yet, which nannies often have.

I think the point about nanny networks is a very good one - they are more established than APs, who are very transient. I really like the idea of my nanny (ooh, I am getting a thrill just saying that! I am going to be a proper grown up nanny employer with proper childcare that doesn't go wrong all the time!) hosting/attending coffee mornings and so on, so there's a bit of friendship and continuity in the daytime for both nanny and baby, plus backup of course, just like us mums do it.

Tankie, you sound brill too.

and yes most nannies i know LOVE the social aspect of being a nanny as well as the structured stuff

lets face it, most mums go out and meet friends/play dates ets

virgin - sure your nanny will enjoy working for you

Just wanted to say that Quattro's ft nursery/school-aupair combo works very well for me. I almost never have to take emergency childcare days anymore (even 10 whole working days' worth of recent chicken pox) as my aupair covers it for my dd 5 and ds 2. My aupair is also covering my dd's summer hols and all half terms.

For emergencies, it would naturally depend on aupair's availability. My German aupair attended English classes 3 mornings a week but voluntarily cancelled to cover dc sickness. She got paid extra of course. If she could not cover, either dh or I would step in.

I would not trust an aupair with sole charge of a young child initially. But from observation, it is possible to gauge whether the aupair has got commonsense and is a reliable sort. Both my aupairs, 19 and 20 respectively, did in fact pass the test, had good English and established good rapport with my dcs.

If I could not trust my aupair with solecharge of a young child, it would not matter whether that solecharge was 2 hours or 10 hours. She can either be trusted or not. And if she could not, she would be of limited use to me (I have been spoilt) and probably someone I would want to usher on.

Boffinmum, I appreciate nursery/aupair is not practical or appealing to you. Just wanted to give my experience of this.

blueshoes, I think the main factor here is that I work 60 miles away from my home, and would be using a workplace nursery, so that makes the whole thing a problem, if for example the baby needs collecting during the day from nursery because of illness. If we were all just a few miles from each other it might be different.

Blondes, I am going to have to open another bottle because it appears Tankie and I drank all the virtual wine.

Blueshoes
You've got me in a tizz again. I'm now wondering what to recruit for...an au pair or a live-in nanny, dumping the nursery????

Boffinmum, that makes sense.

Harriet, what is your track record like with hiring aupairs? I can afford to be fussy because being in London I can pick and choose aupairs. So if one is not up to scratch, (I tell myself that) I will get rid of her sharpish and try my luck with another, and another, and another. But if your location/family is not attractive to aupairs, then a nanny might be a safer bet.

I used to live in London in a very desirable area - however I have always found it awkward and disruptive getting rid of indifferent au pairs. They seem to be quite random and it's hard to tell who would be good. I am exhausted after 20 years of this childcare grief, hence trying to find a nanny now!!

boffinmum, I don't have actual experience of a poor aupair - I have been very lucky, save for my first one who never turned up! But reading horror stories on here, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of it is luck and I should be able to tell within 2 weeks whether it was going to work (and I don't mean just limp along) or not. If I was unlucky, my strategy would be to get rid of very quickly.

In fact, I was close to calling time on the current one who despite being absolutely lovely in a fit of homesickness wanted to cut short her stay in a way which was very inconvenient for me. So I think I do have the balls to do it if I had to. It would be expensive - involving a certain amount of pay off - but I will do it rather than bear another moment with someone I was not entirely happy with under my roof. I mean happy with childcare-wise. Housework is not so important.

I have hired at short notice before (no-show) and if I was still within the Sept/Oct months, I think I would have a good second bite at the cherry.

Well, that is the theory anyway.

blueshoes, I wish I was at tough as you. I am clearly a big softie and it has done me no favours.

boffinmum, I only talk tough. 20 years of childcare grief?

Yeah, in France they would probably give me the Legion d'Honneur for this many kids and this much hassle. In the UK there is always an air of perpetual surprise that children exist at all.

drinking on duty

is there a nursery near to your house or are you def thinking the nanny route - which i do think is easier when you have 2+ children