How much should I pay a nanny who brings her own child with her?

[sallyss]

I am considering employing a nanny who will bring her daughter with her to work. How much should I pay her - same as a nannyshare? But what about the tax?
Any advice?
Thanks, Sally

we have had 2 nannies who brought their own children with them. both were fantastic, very professional and exceptionally fine carers for my dd.

we paid them exactly the same as any other nanny we employed - well what i mean is, we didn't reduce their pay because they brought their own dcs.

what you need to have clear is that you are paying them to care for your child and it is taht you need to evaluate and pay accordingly. i never worried about this one jot - we interviewed prospective nanny, then a second time had them bring their dcs with them and then worked out together how it would work.

ime nannies with their own children are so mature and experienced you get a fab experience.

we are still in touch with most of our former nannies (this sounds dreadful - we had a series of temps to cover my odd work pattern!)and they bring their dcs for playdates and still babysit for our family.

overthe mill - think you must be one of the few on here who agree with me that nannies who are mums who bring their own child with them - should be paid the same as a nanny who doesnt

I can understand maybe reducing hourly amount slightly, but some on here think as a nanny brings their child, it is a nannyshare and want to pay them 1/2 the average rate ie £4/5 an hour

sallyss - depends on area and age and exp of the nanny imo

appoligizes (sp) then - I thought I had read somewhere on one of the threads that one MN as nanny was bringing her child, she wanted to pay her half the going rate as it was like a nanny share

can au pairs be ofsted registered and then parents be able to claim the vouchers, as then the au pair is being paid, rather then receiving pocket money for 25 hours - if registered then that would make the au pair comeunder a nanny catorgry iyswim

oops - scrap the lst paragraph - was meant to go on another thread

i just think that when they bring their own child it isn't the same as a nanny share at all. you should paythem according to what you evaluate their work to be worth.

Thanks for help with this. I spoke to a nanny agency and they said I should look to pay approx £15 less a day (e.g. £65 rather than £80 if a 10 hour day on £8 per hour). I don't think it's fair to pay them as a nannyshare rate - and agree it's on experience etc. but I do think there should be a reduction.

I live in London. I am meeting 2 nannies with their own child - 1 has 5+ yrs experience, 1 has 2 yrs experience. It will be for 2 days a week.

I don't think I have any issue with nanny bringing own child...and it is play mate for my DD. Any negatives I should be aware of?

Make sure you agree wages as Gross, as if they are working 2 days per week for you, they could well have another job on other days.

negatives:

• The children might not get on and nanny coupld be spending much time dealing with arguments/tears.

• All the wear and tear on your home/furniture/your childs toys of having another child in the house.

• Whenever anything gets broken/trashed it was never nanny's child.

• Cost of food of an extra child

• If child is not same age as your own then you have to watch out for your child being taken to places just to suit the wants/needs of nanny's child.

btw - I think it is very much like a nannyshare but without any of the benefits as you are not getting a 50% reduction. I would be looking for at least a third off the daily rate. Afterall, think about how much nanny is saving not having to shell out for childcare.

you can add in a probation period to sort out those kinds of niggles imo. i think there are only positives personally

As a qualified nanny with 15yrs experience and now my old child of 20mths I actually feel shocked at some peoples reaction to nannies bringing their own child to work with them. After all is it such a shock that a nanny should want to have children of their own......considering the majority of us do this job because we love children. I have been with my current family for 5yrs, they have 1 little girl of 5yrs, and an only child, as is my son. I think that the arrangement works wonderfully and the children are great company for each other. I have never put my own child above the child that I care fors needs, in fact I would say my own child quite often comes second. As for breaking toys etc......this has never happened to me yet but Im sure it will at some point. I would simlpy replace the toy that was broken, but this could easily happen with any child you have over to play! My boss and I are very open and honest with each other and I know that she is very happy and so is the child that I look after. I would actually say that I am a better nanny since having my own child and any-body would be extremely lucky to have me and my son in there home looking after there children. I have allot of friends that have their own child and are finding it hard to get jobs or being offered jobs at a reduced rate of pay. I think its terrible that people want to reduce pay by 50% because a nanny has there own child. You are still getting the same care, the same hours and a better understanding from a nanny that has there own child. I think people need to change their way of thinking and see that its actually a positive thing and not a negative.
Thanks Emma

Emma, your post is a fine example of the selfish entitlement culture that is rife in Britain today.

No one else is entitled to bring their children to work for free. What makes you think you should?

I think you should consider how much a prospective employer who lets you bring your child to work is saving you in your own childcare. It is a perk for you, not the employer who could just as easily hire a baggage-free nanny.

Gimme gimme gimme... Grow up.

I think 60-70% of the going rate is fair pay for a nanny with own child/children.

'You are still getting the same care' - no you're not - you are getting 50% of the care..I would pay 80% of the salary though, but not 100% and I wouldn't employ a nanny with their own child who obviously hadn't fully thought through the pros AND cons of the situation.
And that's speaking as someone who has employed nannies without children, nannies with their own child, shared-nannies and used all sorts of childcare types all with their pros and cons and all with their appropriate cost.

im not a nanny but i wonder why i nanny would carry on with there job once the have a child if they couldnt bring there child to wrk makes no sense to pay childcare to go and watch someone elses child theres no logic in that at all.
i am actually a childminder i used to be a nursery nurse and when we decided that we were trying for my daughter i started to register as a childminder there was no way i was paying to put my child into the nursery and then watch other children in the nursery where as now i watch my daughter at home and other children come to us and use my service. i would feel so guilty and feel like a useless mum if i send my daughter away to childcare and then had great fun doing things with someone elses while thing my daughter would love this.

millarkie - i dont understand why you would think you dont get the same care the nanny will still do all the same taskss, carry out all the same activities and do all the same things she would normally do with your child with that little extra bit of enjoy for your child as there is another child to fun in the fun and make it more exciting

AtheneNoctus is, I think, being a bit harsh. I wouldn't expect to pay someone only £8ph and then try to knock 20% off that rate - it's barely a living wage, especially in London.

If I wanted someone to look after the DC, and I could afford it, I would be happy to pay a much higher rate than that - I would want someone who is motivated, loyal and feels valued. Emma makes some valuable points about the advantages of a nanny bringing her own child to work - an adoptive sibling for an only child, more experience of childcare, more empathy for parents (and particularly the mother) of the child she cares for.

The whole argument of "you're only getting 50% of the care" seems to me to be a bit petty - at the end of the day any mother with more than one child balances up the impact of a second, third (or more) child on their first born - and the majority conclude that what a firstborn loses out on when s/he is "dethroned", s/he gains in terms of learning to share, having a playmate, and so on.

If/when I have my own children and if I were still nannying (unlikely) I wouldn't expect full rate. It is essentially a nanny share but I probably wouldn't be happy with a 50% cut - 75% is fair IMO.

I understand that an employer would want a 'baggage-free' nanny, but equally a nanny with own child usually has a bit more maturity and the experience of being in a parent's shoes, which probably counts for a lot. Having said that I know there are nannies on here in their 30s without children who have tons of experience without being a parent and I'm sure there are nannies in their early 20s with their own children who may not have as much.

Also, in response to the nanny above, I feel it's very different when you're already with a family and go on maternity leave and come back with a child in tow. They can't really cut your wages without looking stingy but if you're HIRING a nanny with own child then it would be reasonable to start from a lower point. My former family made it very clear that if I were to get pregnant they would accept me back, with child in tow, at the same wage (without me asking).

Bringing your child is a perk of the job, which saves you money and costs your employer more. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to take a small pay cut in return for having your child with you full-time.

xoxcherylxox - you're not getting the same if the nanny's child is not the same age. Younger children are usually more work-intense than older ones and it's difficult to see how a tiny baby can be a playmate for a boisterous 3/4/5 year old boy who wants to know why the nanny won't play football in the park.

It's the parent's choice to have another child and 'dethrone' their one and only but it's not their choice if the nanny has a child and some parents might expect some kind of recompense for that. It's not as straightforward as having a playmate and a more experienced nanny, although those are benefits - there are costs involved too: food, outings, increased wear & tear on the home.

What if you have a 2yo, and so does nanny. You want your child to do an expensive music class but nanny can't afford it. You can a) make your child lose out or b) pay for nanny's child. The cost, financial or otherwise, wouldn't exist if the nanny didn't have a child of their own.

What about the risk of your child losing his/her best friend when the nanny leaves (and they all leave sometime)?

What about when your child can't go to his favourite class anymore because nanny's child hates it?

What about when school starts and the two children are enrolled at diffrent places and the school drop off is no longer workable because nanny can't be in two places at the same time?

What about when nanny doesn't want to come to work and expose her child when yours has chicken pox?

What about when nanny feeds her child white bread and nutella for brekkie in front of your child who wouldn't aloud such nutritionally void crap on a cold day in Hell?

Shall I go on????

Employers child will make sacrifices. And the nanny has free childcare and an income. There may be benefits too. But, who are you kidding when you say the care is the same and comes without complications? Certianly not I.

I don't think 50% is fair because you are not an equal boss with equal say on your day. You still are the employee. And I feel 60% reflects this balance. I'd probably be willing to negotiate %70. But more than that would not be worth the extra baggage.

i understand about the cost thing i agree with a slight reduction in the wage i just do not agree with the people who are not happy about a nanny bringing a child and the people who think 50% wage is ok. i take my child to the groups i want to take her to either do it on my days off ie a fri as i only wrk mon to thurs or i pay for the children to go also it doesnt bother me to much i just dont tend to do dear things while im wrking.i work with babies to toddlers at the sametime and afterschool i make sure i do activities that include them all then make sure each child is happy and maybe do something just with babies while toddlers play then with toddlers while baby sleeps.

Cheryl - if you read the thread I don't think there is one parent who says they would pay 50% - there is a post from a nanny who says that she thinks she read a thread on MN where a parent suggested it - I have been on MN for over 8 years and I can't remember any threads recommending a 50% salary for a nanny with child.
From my own experience of employing a nanny with child (child was under 1, my kids 2 and 4)

Nanny couldn't take the kids swimming (because pool only allows 2 children per adult).
Nanny couldn't take dd to ballet class because she had the baby who couldn't be 'looked after' there
I paid for nanny's child to go to playgroups/soft play etc as well as my own (otherwise my own wouldn't go)
Nanny fed her child all sorts of crap (honestly - complete sugary rubbish including cola and this was an under 1 yr old) which then my kids wanted so she would buy them sugary rubbish too.
Nanny's child (once he was toddling) broke 2 cordless phones, one set of speakers, scratched up a brand-new oak floor (was really nanny's fault since the phones etc were out of reach but she gave them to him to play with!) which we paid for.
Our house had to remain baby-proofed for over a year after our kids were not needing it -so we had the hassle of babygates and cupboard latches and bulky highchair.
We had to buy double buggy, and a larger car so that all 3 kids could sit in the back.
Oh and Nanny took days off 'sick' because her baby had woken in the night and she was 'tired'.
Nanny also didn't like waking her own baby in the morning in time to get him to our house to start work at 8am so she would leave him with her dp, drive to us, take ds to school then drive (in my car with dd) back to her house to get her baby, then back to our house, so I was paying a fortune in petrol costs and my dd was sitting in the car for over an hour a day.
After a few months nanny also decided that she might as well have my children at her house so in school holidays would take them to her place and let them watch cartoons whilst her son played with his toys at home. Oh and nanny's mum gave ds cold tea to drink.

Overall it was not a good experience and I feel that some of this was because of the merging of the line between work and home-life by her bringing her ds along.

Some of this was because that particular nanny was not a great one - we employed her because ds has mild special needs and he already knew and liked her..but I was very happy to say goodbye to her and had the joy of employing a child-free nanny after her.

xox, I didn't mean that to be directed at you. A childminder is totally different and well within her rights to set the day out as she/he chooses.

I just meant hypothetically.

And, I don't think anyone has mentioned 50%. But really if the nanny takes a job at 60% of her pre-child wage and then compares it to someone heo is still making the pre-child rate but has to put his/her child into childcare I think the nanny on 60% will find she /he is better off.

xox, given you are a childminder your quote of "i would feel so guilty and feel like a useless mum if i send my daughter away to childcare" seems rather distasteful given you make your money from caring for working parents children,

Given the choice between a nanny without children and one who wanted to bring her own to work, the one without would win every time. There are far too many downsides to a nanny who wants to bring her child to work.

Emma's post is very selfish and all about her as Athena rightly says. Yes nannies have the right to have their own children but not the given right to expect then to return to work with the child in tow or to expect a new employer to raise no objections.