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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Original poster

How is it fair?

181 replies

princessfiona · 03/02/2005 10:14

How is it fair?

  1. To expect someone to work for 10-12 hours a day looking after your children for so little money?

  2. Would you do it for so little money?

  3. Even if they come from a country not as wealthy as UK or USA etc.

  4. Do you think they should have a pay increase?

  5. I know that it is allowed legally to pay under the minimum wage but does it mean that looking after your children is worth so little?

  6. If your daughter went to another country would you want them to be treated in the same way and paid the same?

  7. How much time off do they have? Whole weekends without babysitting?

OP posts:
NameChangingMancMidlander · 03/02/2005 11:51

In that case, I misunderstood your original post too, I apologise.

Original poster
princessfiona · 03/02/2005 11:53

sorry everyone my typing is so slow
I miss the post and it moves on

yes ok so you want to work and for your children you want them to see you work but do you wnat them to remember you working 12 hors a day and admire the fact

or for them to remember playing with mum at home or going to park, frist day at school,

I am not against working mothers otherwise I would be out of a job myself but I just don't understand them and why they do it?

Why why why why?

I dont understand why?

OP posts:
Ameriscot2005 · 03/02/2005 12:00

That's a whole different debate, PF

Uwila · 03/02/2005 12:01

Princessfiona, I am struggling to contain myself.. but I'll keep trying to remain civil here.

Questioning my choice to work full time, and not my husband's is something that baffles me. These attitudes belong in the 1950s.

Also your comments are coming desperately close to questions my worth as a mother. I answered your questions to help you understand. But, you seem to be saying that my choosing to go to work instead of hanging out with my kids for the day is wrong. You didn't blatantly state that, but it seems to be implied.

Why do you not question the work ethic of fathers, only mothers? Does your husband work a full day?

tarantula · 03/02/2005 12:02

I work in an office and am proud of that fact that I bring in a salary to pay for the mortgage and the bills (just). What wrong with that?? Why shouldnt I? Why not????? DD is not in anyway affected badly by this. She has a loving home and a GOOD STAY AT HOME DAD to look after her. WHY SHOULD MUMS ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO FEEL GUILTY??? Children have TWO parents so why not have a go at working dads????? Why not ask them about feeling guilty about going out to work and leaving their kids?????

tarantula · 03/02/2005 12:03

Well said Uwila and better said than me. Deep breath Feel better now

Original poster
princessfiona · 03/02/2005 12:06

perhaps I should shut up then

I guess too strong a querry

sorry

OP posts:
Potty1 · 03/02/2005 12:06

Wondered how long it would take for this to turn into a Why do mums work thread?

Gwenick · 03/02/2005 12:09

indeed well said Uwila - and also the attention that some of my working friends give their children when they're at home with them is MUCH greater than I generally give my 2 when I'm at home all day with them.

As someone else has said it's really a completete different debate - but as a SAHM I'd just like to say I LOVE staying at home with my children. I DO play with them, but being at home all day I find that I simply don't have the motivation to give them 100% all day every day, so in actually fact they probably get quite a lot LESS full on attention from me than most working mothers give their children. As most that I know that work spend their (shorter) time with the kids REALLY getting down and playing with them.

I don't know of anyone who has 'suffered' from the mother working - I do however know of people who have 'suffered' in the long run because of poor parenting skills and other problems at home (and that includes people who had SAHM's!)

Uwila · 03/02/2005 12:14

Fiona,
It's not the strength of the query; rather it's the implied accusations which lie behind it.

I better go now before I lose it on this thread... off to get some lunch for me and the unborn bub.

expatinscotland · 03/02/2005 12:17

Thank you, tarantula! I'm the wife of a SAHD who's a brilliant father. I had severe PND even after I returned to work, and I'm so grateful he was hte one staying home with Aillidh. Our daughter gets to grow up seeing that women can have a working life in addition to being mums and that men are just as capable of being nurturers and caregivers as women. They have two parents for a reason!

Original poster
princessfiona · 03/02/2005 12:17

sorry am not trying to impily anything

I honestly do not understand why?

I do not want an arguement

OP posts:
Original poster
princessfiona · 03/02/2005 12:21

If people want to argue and fight

then I am going

because all I want is to try to understsand

Please do not get angry?

OP posts:
CountessDracula · 03/02/2005 12:24

Errr, I thought Au Pairs got paid so little because they work only a few hours a day, get their board and lodging, and are here to learn English etc. It is a well known tradition isn't it?

I totally agree that proper nannies should be paid as such, with all the benefits etc that any normal worker would get. Paying below the minimum wage is unacceptable, though I guess you factor in the accommodation/food thing too if the nanny is live in.

Personally my nanny lives out, is English, and I pay her well above min. wage as I value her enormously, she has become a bit of a family retainer really, I suspect she will continue to be involved for many years to come on a p/t basis as we are paying for her to have a career change to a driving instructor, she will do that p/t and look after dd p/t when she is at nursery/school. I want that continuity.

I appreciate that not everyone can afford to pay their nannies a lot, but unless you can afford min. wage you should look for alternative IMO

tarantula · 03/02/2005 12:26

Mothers go out to work (or stay at home) for all the same reasons that fathers do. Cant see what the difficulty in understanding that is at all.

jampots · 03/02/2005 12:28

but do any of the families whose nanny/au pair lives in assume market rates for renting a room or what it actually costs you, ie. presumably nothing for hte room but extra in elec and food?

CountessDracula · 03/02/2005 12:28

What if you have to buy a bigger house to accomodate the nanny!?

CountessDracula · 03/02/2005 12:29

IMO you should make a small allowance for it. For eg it is not fair if you live in big flash house in Mayfair to then deduct the cost of renting in such a smart area from the nanny's wages!

£20 - £30 a week should do it incl food surely.

Ameriscot2005 · 03/02/2005 12:32

There is a burden on your household by having a "stranger" living with you. The burden probably would be similar if you actually had a paying lodger.

However, you are right, not many families would not automatically rent out the spare room, but it is still worth £100 or whatever to the au pair because that's what she'd have to pay if she were renting and doing another job.

The fact that she can get cheap room & board is one of the win-win things about having an au pair.

Gwenick · 03/02/2005 12:32

Countess - just because you live in a big house doesn't mean you have lots of money - many people bought their 'big flash' houses before the prices went through the roof. Many earn 'average' (ok 'above average' if they can afford a nanny - but not nessecarily HUGE ones) salaries and have the same worries about debt, credit cards and loans as the rest of us in our modest little 3 bedroom places in rather dodgy towns!

Ameriscot2005 · 03/02/2005 12:34

For au pairs, you don't factor in the cost of the room. You ignore it completely and just pay the going rate pocket money according to their age, skills and experience.

Having a nicer house just makes your job more attractive so easier to secure a good au pair.

CountessDracula · 03/02/2005 12:41

Gwenwick that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you shouldn't penalise the nanny for the value of your room rental if you live in an expensive area. Regardless of when prices went up, an expensive area is an expensive area!

I should know i live in one! I could probably rent my spare room out for £800 a month if I wanted, are you suggesting that I would deduct that from a nanny's wages?

wordsmith · 03/02/2005 12:44

PF, mothers go out to work

a) because they need the money to pay the mortgage and bills!
b) because they value the intellectual stimulation
c) because their children benefit from having a happy mother
d) because sometimes women who have had a fulfilling career find it hard to adapt to fulltime motherhood. Others find it easier. But we are all different.

Yes having children and paying someone else to look after them can seem a little bizarre, but only if you believe than mothers are the ONLY people who can possibly give their childen any care and attention. What about fathers, grandparents, trained specialists (nannies, childminders, nurseries) and, heaven forbid, schoolteachers? (We trust them don't we?)

In the majority of cases I would say a) is the main reason, but not the only one.

Ameriscot2005 · 03/02/2005 12:45

Rent out the room and get a live-out nanny

Seriously, aren't there going-rates for live-in and live-out nannies that would apply to all houses in the area?

CountessDracula · 03/02/2005 12:46

Yes, but I think you'll find that the rates are higher in these areas rather than lower!

I shan't rent my room out for the same reason that I don't have a live-in nanny - I don't want to share my house with anyone!