Help! What should au pairs get in London? URGENT

[majorstress]

I'm paying £80 pocket money, all food, own room with new tv, dvd and radio. 3 x 3 hours English classes a week, just paid £137 for 12 weeks. Original agreement was this would rise to £100 this month, but hours were from 2:30 to 8 pm, 2 kids one at school one at FULLTIME nursery. She has talked me into letting her knock off at 6:30, and to let her off most of the housework which is ironing. The other housework is done to the minimum, very passive and helpless about everything, doesn't seem to know how to change a bed, or hoover, or cook despite talking about it all the time. I am finding myself working non-stop doing housework as well as a full time job, and failing dismally at coping with either, with continual colds and a back injury. Now she wants me to honor the £100 part of the deal. Am I a mug? a slavedriver? Should I find someone else? Quit my job? Kill myself?

I guess I can just see who I get, who is interested, with my new revised contract and pay offer, and if succcessful I will hold them strictly to it from day one, no "settling in" nonsense. If they don;t like the pay they won't take the job will they? Otherwise will have to put dd1 into breakfast and afterschool club far away from our house, and forget proper Montessori for dd2. Hate to take DD2 out of local montessori, she is so happy, never cries, and it's unlikely I will get all my days back at the inferior work nursery, it's very full (she's there mon and tues already, and it kills my back getting her there.) But Monto only runs until 12, like all the area nurseries, and won;t take her for less than 2 days a week. They don' t seem to have any concept of working families needs in my area. The childminders I have seen go around with 7 kids strapped in and to double buggies, all scoofing crisps and screaming, it looks like a dog-walker!

cat fixed i think

But, I think that your understanding applies to times gone by. No doubt, there will be a barage of mumsnetters on here soon to back you up. But, I still have my own mind to disagree. The Home Office does not require the hours you state. That "understanding" comes from a time when au pairs did not have rights as an employee. Today, they are entitled to such things as statutory sick pay, and 20 days paid holiday. That's just it. They are employees with the very same rights that I have at my job. But, some will argue that they should have the employment rights plus all of the old "understandings".

I agree that the extra hours warrant resonable pay. But, let us not overlook that this person's room and board is paid for. That counts for a lot. And, also, the value of her English lessons should be counted in her total package. She deserves fair pay, but not extra freebies, like travel card and English classes. ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE ISN'T EVEN DOING HER JOB!

I believe that we should treat our domestic employees as we would expect our employer to treat us. That's the rule I apply with mine.

Oh, and another thing, employers are not required to pay for travel beyond their own front door. Some do pay for this. And I might consider it if I had the spare cahs, AND if she was worthy. But, the au pair you describe is not in my view particularly worthy.

If you pay the au pair at least the Home Office recommended minimum, together with their accommodation and food costs, they are making over minimum wage.

Because most au pairs are in the country temporarily, it's really not worth the trouble for anyone to register them officially. ISTR reading this on the Home Office website. It also says that au pairs (following the traditional description) from Accession states do not need to register with the Home Office - other workers do.

But Uwila, you don't have an au pair, even though you call her that. She is a Nanny, and nannies are subject to the same obligations as any other employee. Au pairs meet a narrow set of criteria (17-27, unmarried, no dependents, 25 hpw etc.) You can still get au pairs from EU countries, and the only difference is that they aren't limited to the hours (within the working time directive) and pay.

I definitely agree that you should keep "perks" out of the equation, unless you have access to cheap perks for some reason (like adding her onto your gym membership for a token amount). If you want to pay for language classes, give her a little bit towards them every week as part of her pocket money. And if you really can't hold back on generosity, save the perks as rewards for doing extra good work. When au pairs get together, they like to compare what each other is getting and seem to forget about non-monetary stuff - so give her all her pocket money in cash, and not in things.

Those rules you list for an au pair (single, less than 25 hours, age restrictions, etc.) only applie to people comminng into the country on an au pair visa. If you employ someone who already has the right to work in the UK (i.e. an dEU citizen) then the rules are the same as for any other employee. And, there is no legal minimum wage for en employee who lives in your house.

Where did you read these guidelines from the Home Office? I don't think I've ever seen them.

Also, I do call her a nanny these days.

so im a father could i have an au pair even though i have my ds certtain amount of times a month.
am i right in thinking it is cheap labour.
if so where the hell do i get one or 2 lol

Ah, but romantik, there's a trade off. The less you pay, the more you train, and the sooner they move on... Personally, I think there is a happy middle ground between what most parents can afford and what people are willing to work for. I suppoe that middle ground is what establishes the market, really.

Oh, and you have to find one who you want living in your house, and who wants to live in your house, and youprobably have to provide them with some kind of avenue for learning English (if you aren't home). You need to give them their own room, feed them, and so on...

Still interested?

Rumbled! I got in this evening and there was some tension in the air, she asked if I was looking for another AP, I said no why, and she said she had seen I had logged onto greataupair. I coolly (yay!) said of course I always keep my profile up to date so she said she liked this job, and offered to do the ironing which she had previously whinged so piteously about that I immediately excused her from this cruel punishment; I replied that I don't mind doing the ironing myself but would ask her for more help in other ways as I needed it, and that she might move on at some time, who knows the future, so she promised she would definitely give 4 weeks notice, but I replied it took 3 months to get her so she seemed mollified. I had noticed that great au pair said "HI! (her name)" on my PC and knew that when I logged on it would change to me and then she might see it-BUT HANG ON...why was she looking at greataupair herself? I hope she finds something else soon, I feel totally sanguine (is that the same as unworried?) about her going now. My life as it stands is a misery and I came very close to running away from all of it and them a few nights ago. Do you think the family has sensed the change in me? I stopped yelling, and quit taking Prozac. Why should I try to change my mood and have more energy, for everyone else to feed on? She finished off and brought me the cup of coffee (a first, had to ask how I liked it), which I thought showed some spirit-she hasn't given up trying to improve in the face of some adversity and I am not coming across as unbearable. I had finally given up trying to make the cup of coffee on arrival home when the children dragged me away to watch their fave Noddy on tv OR ELSE. They hate this life too. But I really just don't care anymore about any of it, Grasshopper. I think I should learn from her to enjoy my own life and pursue my own interests, others are welcome to join me if they like, but not to drown me anymore with their babyish demands. ALso I have already learnt ...that I LIKE ironing! ran out of things to iron tonight!!! or maybe I have just finally lost my mind.

Survey-what do you pay PER hour, including everything except room and food?

Mine works out at £4.51 including language classes and textbook.

bump, c'mon guys, own up, who has an AP or Nanny

I'll own up if you can be clear about the hours your au pair is supposed to work. When you list them, it seems like an extraordinary amount - and a very confusing (and morphing) array.

There are quite a few au pair threads that have been added to over the last few months. I'm sure you can get an idea of hours and rates from them.

I pay mine 6 euros an hour for babysitting (and if I am home from work later than 6.00 pm). She works from 12.00 (when DD1 finishes Kindergarten) until 6.00 Mon-Fri, looking after children and doing some general cleaning (not ironing - we have an ironing fairy who does that), no heavy stuff like windows and no washing. I pay her around 600 euros per month (plus overtime), paid her fare here, her health insurance (about 50 euros per month) and her language classes which are over 100 euros per month. She will also get around 6 weeks paid leave per year, and I will pay for her to get home at Christmas and in the summer as well.

HI, AMeriscot, It works out at 25 hours, now I have agreed to nothing after 6 pm and added a couple of hours on Friday afternoons to make up for that. I have been madly trying to find a compromise over the past few days, and that is why the hours have changed. That's why I came on here, to get a feel if I am doing the right thing.

This might be a slightly strange suggestion, but when we had a rubbish au pair, despite all the writing out of lists, hours etc I felt that the message was not getting through. So I sat her down with v nice local au pair to help as translator, as well as my Mum - scary girls' school mistress - to work out whethr or not she was stupid, lazy or reallt did want to work. Form this "refereed" and VERY diplomatic discussion, we ascertained that she thought being an au pair was like being the adopted teenage daughter of the house, who could be a "big sister" to the little one. SO I am afraid that she was given her ticket home for the following w/e and worked every day that week on getting the house sparkling.

We then got a far better one, who was given a welcome pack including a list of rules in English and her native language, a timetable for work, rest, eating and play. It worked from day 1. I have only had temp A/Ps as we have a nanny, but have spoken in the past to Jana at Cambridge Nannies and Au Pairs who sometimes sources for London and she is v sensible. The Czechs seem to be the best.

GOOD LUCK

I think a welcome pack is a great idea, Tiggus. I'm preparing one for my new au pair who is coming to us at the weekend. I'm putting in "nice" stuff, such as bus timetables and local maps, as well as the job spec.

Meant to post this question yesterday but didn't get to the PC again. It's really a question for Uwila who said you pay your nanny gross and I am wondering how you manage to do that? If you pay her gross but are her employer, who is paying her tax and how can you not pay the employer's element of NI? Or did I misunderstand your message? If there's any legal way of me paying my nanny gross and letting her figure all the rest of it out herself, then I'd surely like to hear it!

Tiggus, I have never heard of anyone who has had a duff Czech or Slovak nanny/au pair (tho by the law of averages, some must exist!). I have known several and they have all been excellent. I have one myself who has just washed the floor (moving things out of the way so she can wash behind them!) and is currently playing Snakes and Ladders with DD2.

Yes, a welcome pack should be welcoming too, but put all the tough stuff at the front so that at least they read it!
Make sure you don't delete it from the hard disk after wards as everybody always wanted my template and somehow I wiped it recently ... silly me. Anyway, anyone here want to answer my q on Friends Who Like your Nanny .... (ie maybe a little Too Much and would love to steal her ...)is ona separate thread

Hurrya Tiggus, what a fab idea. And I guess the "Big sister" phrase is a BIG RED FLAG; this one used it too! So that is probably the problem and why she is always wheedling out all my remaining spare cash and wingeing her way out of everything, which I won;t tolertae in my own kids and they don;t expect to win that way from me! . Her MOTHER wrote to me that she was worried about her, and I can see why, and also the very true point that she is nice and kind with little kids. But I cannot afford to re-train another daughter right now -my own already have more sense dinned into them.

Here?s the deal on paying your employee gross. As her employer, you are legally obligated to collect the tax and pay it to our greedy government on her behalf. But, just like any other employer in this country, you can take it out of her pay. And, of course, you must also take NI out of the pay cheque (and then add some of your own on top). We simply employ Nannypaye to do all of this for us. They ask us what her salary is, and also if that amount is gross or net. Then, each month they tell us how much to write her check for. We pay her £xxx.xx per calendar month gross. The check she get from us is equal to £xxx.xx minus the applicable tax and NI contributions. If you want someone to take care of all of this for you, I recommend nannypaye. I?m not sure, but I think their address is www.nannypaye.co.uk. Nannytax is another one, but they are considerably more expensive. However, nannytax has a great website with everything you ever need to know about employer obligations. www.nannytax.co.uk (I think?).

Also, you can get a book called The Good Nanny Guide at Waterstones. I highly recommend it.

Goodness me - that stuff from her Mum sounds rather telling. The reason I got my Mum involved was because she has heard every excuse in the book from teenage girls and can spot slackers a mile off - it must have been all her teaching experience plus bringing me up !

Good luck with it. The 6 weeks we had Katkin the Sofa Gherkin with us were probably amongst the most stressful in my life. These will all be great anecdotes for the Book of Your Life, for which you will be paid a huge advance and enable you to hang out with your little angels all day long and do family manicures.

Katkin, the Sofa Gherkin - I love it! We had Vandalina the Book Wrecker (used to make notes in the margins of our books and underline bits. DH caught her and was livid - to put it mildly).

DH got home from grueling work trip, and freaked out that I was even quietly looking for a new AP. Getting comments like "unilateral decisions" etc. Last week he said he thought she had lost a child or somthing which is why she's so sad (in every sense). Why did he think this, I queried? Because her wierd tattoo that peeks out of her builders bum looks like a fetus, he says. I have only glimpsed this monstrosity myself, she only bends down to raid the fridge, so I wondered how he had managed to make such a detailed study of it?!?!? and finally