Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

[Girlmum1984]

My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks and we will be able to claim 30 free hours. When this happens, my consumables fee will increase from £12 a day to £29. have questioned this with management and asked for a breakdown of what this fee includes. They have listed food, nappies etc as well as a few activities (baking, PE classes, music classes). The activities listed take place twice month and so far haven’t been on the day that my child attends. All of this would never add up to £29 daily.

Unsatisfied with the response, I emailed the local council to understand how consumables fees can be issued to parents and it there were any regulations. As a result, they contacted the nursery manager and investigated. They were satisfied with the findings and basically said there are no regulations they need to follow when it comes to consumables fees and they can charge what they like. Annoying, but fine.
I have now had an official looking email from my nursery to say I have impacted the staffs mental health by making this enquiry and they are going to discuss whether our contact will be terminated as a result!
I’ve never had any issues with staff in the past and we’ve always been on friendly terms. My daughter enjoys the setting and the care they provide isn’t in question.

can they kick her out as their manager has an issue with me contacting the council about them? Thanks

I know right! Perfectly reasonable question

I ended up not going with a nursery near me as initially they wouldn’t tell me what the consumables / extra charges are. Then wouldn’t give a breakdown

The thing is. Nurseries absolutely are! There staff are paid peanuts and it's mostly run by apprentices. Have you guys seen nursery owners? It's apparently the only charge you have to pay without question according to mumsnet! No other business would get away with billing you for vague nonsensical stuff and it would be accepted they would just terminate the contract! Mumsnet is ridiculous sometimes!

Unfortunately you are incorrect. It IS meant to be free.

The government states it is free. It is the “30 free hours” scheme, the “30 free hours” code. I log into my government account, which states “use this account to get free childcare if you’re working”. It’s referred to as 30 free hours, it’s intended to be 30 free hours.

Nurseries receive £5.88 per hour for three and four year olds to cover this scheme (so about £700 a month from the government for “free hours” children). Charging for dinners and nappies? Fine. But charging an additional £600 a month on top of that and dressing it up as “consumables” is not fine. And repeatedly stating “it’s not meant to be free” when all the verbiage refers to it as “30 free hours” scheme is dishonest.

Some nurseries can’t manage their business based on the current funding? Fine! But it is meant to be free hours for parents. The fact that nurseries are doing all these extra inflated charges doesn’t negate the fact that the intention of the scheme was for it to be free childcare for working parents.

@Nichebitch The fact that they are kicking you out for this is outrageous and that’s the bit I would be reporting for sure.

“reporting” - to whom and for what?

Well done on standing up and challenging them, if more people did it they wouldn't get away with it. There are nurseries not charging any top up fees and thriving. Unfortunately the majority jumped on the bandwagon when complaints were in the media. £30 a day for consumables is a joke.

Agree... 30 pound a day.. for what? How much paint and paper does the average 3 year old go through a day? Are the lunches to such a high standard to reflect this payment. I doubt it

That is why the nursery I know would never accept funded hours.

I'd also be wary of professionals who can't handle being challenged. Aren't most of us challenged in our job roles and accountable to customers/clients?

How do you know it was a few simple questions? If the LA got involved, it would have been a full funding audit.

£600 odd quid a month potentially is peanuts?

What do they say on here.....are you on glue?

If the nursery has nothing to hide, why are they quite so pissed off with the investigation into charges?
Everyone gets investigated/audited/is accountable in some shape or form aren't they? don't most businesses have this at some point? I'm sure they have OFSTED looking at them too, but they're not expelling OFSTED bosses from the nursery...

I work for a company with an attached nursery and it may have to close due to overheads so that gives you some idea...

When your child turns 3 and you get the funding, you would be forgiven to think the fees will go down significantly

They will only reduce by £5 a month
Sorry. Only another 1.5 years until school!

I think it’s because they’re not allowed to call it a top up fee. My daughter’s nursery charges £78 a day, the gov funding works out about £58 a day and therefore the consumable fee is conveniently £20 a day. They have to vaguely describe it as a “consumable fee” for activities / nappies & wipes etc which is open to interpretation when what we all know it is is a top up fee except that can’t say that.

@Schoolrunisbizarre because it is an open secret that consumables charges are top up charges, and if the LA had found that was the situation, the nursery would have to cease the charge and close, or cease offering funded hours.

It is disingenuous to talk about “nothing to hide” when nurseries are forced to collude in the government fiction that hours are fully funded.

Given a full time place is £1250ish then £600 seems quite cheap!

But what you have done is massively unreasonable

You sound like a huge pain in the arse

The 3 year olds subsidise the babies because of ratios. Most 3 year olds aren’t even in nappies. Better to put them in a setting that’s 2 and over or a pre-prep that starts from 3 so you know the money you’re spending is actually going on your child.

The problem is that '30 free hours' is bandied about and really it should be made very clear that its subsidised hours and that they'll still be a cost to users. It's the fact it makes it sound like the cost is to cover meals, nappies, activities which is annoying. Just tell it like it is: it's a subsidy.

That said, £30 a day is extremely cheap. For a nursery that's open from 8-6 it's £3 an hour for the thing that's most precious to you to be cared for.

As an 'oldie' my children were in day nursery back before any 'free hours.' Full fees all year round, from 3 months (short maternity leave back then) until they started school. So while I understand the OPs frustration at the messaging, the reality is , it's still a damn good deal.

Pretty expensive peanuts though!

I’m a childminder and add a consumables fee. I’m very open and honest with parents and explain exactly how little the local authority pay. If I’m full with 3 and 4 year olds then I can’t afford to stay open. The difference in the amount paid is rather large. It’s either charge consumables or I close my doors and work at the supermarket where I will earn more 🤷🏼‍♀️. I do leave it voluntary but all parents have paid it and support what I do. I’m not raking it in whatsoever, especially as at least a 3rd of what I earn goes on expenses. The funding hits all settings hard, especially when you have the overheads of a nursery. I’m sure there are some larger chains that manage to make a decent amount but the majority are majorly struggling.

I work hard at what I do, I care deeply for the children but if I’m not making enough to cover my bills then there’s little point in carrying on.

If I was investigated by the LA because a parent complained then I would see that as a breakdown in our relationship. The audits we have to do are head enough but to be investigated is rather a step up from this. I would terminate the contract as I wouldn’t want to carry on with that family. What happens next time they’re not happy, should I expect complaints to be made every time I do something they’re not pleased about?

I get that Sheila, but £29 is a lot, and that may not be affordable for many.
How do you know they're definitely not swindling people? I mean, it's highly, highly unlikely, and as the LA found nothing wrong, it's not the case here seemingly. But why is it not okay to ask the question??

The problem is that '30 free hours' is bandied about and really it should be made very clear that its subsidised hours and that they'll still be a cost to users

It's "bandied about" because the gov.uk site says it's free childcare.

I do genuinely think that the early years sector has been great a pleading poverty to avoid any public scrutiny for how they use their funding. They don't pay the funding back when a child is off sick and they sell on the slots. They're paying minimum wage (I could understand not covering their overheads if each room had an Ed psych and specialist teachers) and they're run on apprentices (do they get funding from the government for taking them on?)
It's daylight robbery.

A business should be able to cope with a query or a complaint. Making it personal and citing mental health is utterly ridiculous.