Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

[Girlmum1984]

My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks and we will be able to claim 30 free hours. When this happens, my consumables fee will increase from £12 a day to £29. have questioned this with management and asked for a breakdown of what this fee includes. They have listed food, nappies etc as well as a few activities (baking, PE classes, music classes). The activities listed take place twice month and so far haven’t been on the day that my child attends. All of this would never add up to £29 daily.

Unsatisfied with the response, I emailed the local council to understand how consumables fees can be issued to parents and it there were any regulations. As a result, they contacted the nursery manager and investigated. They were satisfied with the findings and basically said there are no regulations they need to follow when it comes to consumables fees and they can charge what they like. Annoying, but fine.
I have now had an official looking email from my nursery to say I have impacted the staffs mental health by making this enquiry and they are going to discuss whether our contact will be terminated as a result!
I’ve never had any issues with staff in the past and we’ve always been on friendly terms. My daughter enjoys the setting and the care they provide isn’t in question.

can they kick her out as their manager has an issue with me contacting the council about them? Thanks

Then they should say that, and be up front about charges. Lying and then bleating about their mental health isn't the way to keep a business going.

The consumables fee might have increased but your overall fee will be significantly less. I don't know why you felt the need to complain!

The amount the government gives nurseries does not cover the true cost of the provision .
they need to get more £ from somewhere.

They literally cannot call it a top up charge or that would be shut down by a council complaint.

At that point, they can either close or stop offering “funded” hours. Neither is good for the children or parents.

They can only charge extra for consumables, charging in this way is what the government requires them to do.

They cannot charge more for the hours used.

Absurd, but how it is.

I can imagine it would impact the team if reported and investigated by the council, yes.

It's no secret that child care in the UK is massively underfunded and has been for years to the point that the sector is on the brink of collapse. It is an issue that Early Year Provider's have been very vocal about. It's difficult to see how much more honest and upfront they could be.

This. What planet are you on OP reporting them?? Either you accept that the funded hours don’t cover all their overheads and they will try and recoup costs somehow to stay afloat. Or you find something cheaper such as a childminder who don’t have so many overheads etc.

I guess they can either increase the charge for consumables for 3+ or they could increase the fees for the younger ones still further to subsidise the free hours for the older ones. That wouldn't be very fair on the parents of younger ones though.

Current hourly rates are on gov.uk

“Funding rates per child paid from September will increase from an average of £5.29 to £5.62 for 3 and 4-year-olds, and from an average of £6.00 to £7.95 for 2-year-olds.”

it is averaged as more expensive areas will get a higher rate, but your LA will give the exact figure to you if you ask.

Sure but the alternative option is private which is at least double that per day! Not unusual for Londonarea to be 90-100 PER DAY

Unfortunately this is incorrect- It’s not meant to be free.
This is a huge continuing misunderstanding . The hours are funded partly but not entirely. I imagine the nursery staff get fed up of people moaning because they do not understand the situation.

It's no good complaining about nurseries on here OP. They can do no wrong and if you do anything at all to upset them it's fine for them to kick your child out. Even before the child has even started, in the recent thread about a childminder.

As for the stress of an investigation - people are allowed to make complaints!

This happens with care homes as well. Elderly people aren't looked after properly because relatives are scared to complain.

Fair enough to enquire the cost directly with the nursery, but what did you think you would achieve by reporting to the Council? Of course, that will get their back up and cause an issue. Doesn’t make sense to me if you are happy with the nursery, if your child is 3 it’s not much longer to pay, I would have factored in the cost of NI increases & NMW, if the nursery can’t cover costs it will close.

As for the stress of an investigation - people are allowed to make complaints!

And businesses are allowed to terminate contracts by following their notice conditions.

If OP found a nursery with a lower top up charge, or nearer to home, or her mum took over childcare etc, she could give notice and the nursery would need to accept it. Cuts both ways.

Genuine question does the consumables charges occur in nurseries connected to schools or are you able to provide a packed lunch (ds2 has allergies)?

Oh, and you can complain about a nursing home to the CQC (or to ofsted for a nursery) if it is the standard of provision worrying you. That wasn’t OP’s complaint.

Consumables can include things like craft supplies, it isn’t just food

Agree with others. Fine to question but you can’t expect to still have a positive relationship with them after you reported them to the council. The trust is gone.

to be honest £30 for consumables a day is still peanuts.

Seriously? For a baby or toddler? Try telling that to the people responsible for child maintenance calculations.

Nurseries certainly are not 'raking' it in!

I should imagine they have worded it as 'staff's mental health has suffered' as it may be a kinder way of wording the fact the OP is not wanted at the nursery anymore!

Someone who is going to query what they have just been told with the council, instigating an investigation that puts on extra pressure is not going to be seen in the best light. You either accept their t&c's or look elsewhere. You must have signed you had read them when you first enrolled your child OP?

There are two things to learn from this story:

1. Arrange a face to face meeting with the nursery manager before escalating as a complaint with the council (because that’s what it was taken as). The staff would probably have explained the funding situation properly to you. They might also have been open to negotiation if you had approached them nicely - a discretionary reduction if the fee was going to cause real hardship, a discount for providing some of your own supplies. Or at least assurance that some of the paid activities would fall on your child’s days in future.
2. Wherever you hear politicians talking about ‘free nursery places’ correct them. It is misleading and as can be seen from this thread, some parents don’t know that they will need to budget for extra once their child is 3. The funding for ‘free’ places is too inadequate to make them actually free, and communication about this funding is not honest and transparent.

My local nursery is a charity treading the Same tightrope between affording to pay their staff and utilities (remember their gas/electricity will have gone up too) and keeping fees manageable for the majority of parents.

I must say, I'd question the fitness to practise of a nursery manager whose mental health is so fragile that it's damaged by a simple query to the council about fees - let alone that of staff who are affected by their employers' fees being queried. How on earth would they deal with a real crisis?

The manager might want to think about whether this is really a road she wants to go down.

They're a private business and at the end of the day they can decide to withdraw providing you with a service for whatever reason they like. Unless it's something like discriminating on the basis of a protected characteristic, like telling you to leave because they don't like the fact that you're a particular race or religion or gay, they can make their own commercial decisions.

OP, you have been chosen for the mumsnet piling up fury 😂
the vast majority of people here are missing the point. Whatever they have the right or not of charging more and you not knowing why, you are well within your rights contacting the council to understand what they are doing, and if they have nothing to hide, this should be a non issue. The fact that they are kicking you out for this is outrageous and that’s the bit I would be reporting for sure. Basically they’re causing you and your family distress because you asked a question through official channels.

£29 a day consumables does sound a lot, more than I've heard of! but then factoring in losses and what the government pays etc, I know the calculations are more complex.

That said, the nursery have acted unprofessionally IMO. They're allowed to be pissed off with an investigation, but to take it out on the child (by forcing them to move potentially) as a means of getting to the mother is petty.