Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

[Girlmum1984]

My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks and we will be able to claim 30 free hours. When this happens, my consumables fee will increase from £12 a day to £29. have questioned this with management and asked for a breakdown of what this fee includes. They have listed food, nappies etc as well as a few activities (baking, PE classes, music classes). The activities listed take place twice month and so far haven’t been on the day that my child attends. All of this would never add up to £29 daily.

Unsatisfied with the response, I emailed the local council to understand how consumables fees can be issued to parents and it there were any regulations. As a result, they contacted the nursery manager and investigated. They were satisfied with the findings and basically said there are no regulations they need to follow when it comes to consumables fees and they can charge what they like. Annoying, but fine.
I have now had an official looking email from my nursery to say I have impacted the staffs mental health by making this enquiry and they are going to discuss whether our contact will be terminated as a result!
I’ve never had any issues with staff in the past and we’ve always been on friendly terms. My daughter enjoys the setting and the care they provide isn’t in question.

can they kick her out as their manager has an issue with me contacting the council about them? Thanks

When you take action there is your aim and also consequences. In this case it has damaged your relationship with the nursery.

What did you think the outcome would be? Either they would investigate and find they were overcharging, in which case your relationship with them would be damaged and they might struggle financially to continue operating, or they would investigate and find they were doing nothing wrong, in which case your relationship would still be damaged.

You are in your rights to speak to the council, but they are equally in their rights to no longer want you as a client.

It’s surely universally acknowledged that the nursery sector is struggling and that the free hours cover very little of the real cost. Questioning the nursery for a list is one thing, but it’s clearly inflammatory to go to the council.

They are putting their ability to keep running (which supports many children’s welfare) above keeping one difficult client.

They are a private business, probably with a waiting list, who will have increased costs come April with the increased NIC, who are underfunded by government and who had to spend staff time on this complaint.

They don’t owe any one child continuity at the expense of staff or service.

You tried to beat the system and the system bit you on the bum.

It’s insane to force nurseries to run at a loss though. That is, quite clearly, unsustainable.

Nurseries will just stop offering the additional hours, as is already the case in a number of nurseries.

This. The nursery are being both unprofessional and ridiculous. If this has impacted staffs' mental health I'm surprised that can actually make it through the day. The OP is quite within her rights to question the nursery about the fees and consult the council to confirm what she had been told by the nursery was correct.

I'm surprised so many posters are on the side of the nursery here...
Why do people buy into this narrative? Nurseries are hamming this up charging ridiculous "consumables" charges on top of funding. They have ridiculous isolation periods for the most common illnesses - see 5 days after a rash appears for slapped cheek (nhs says no longer contagious and no need to isolate.) You get no refund for I'll children (so they take the fee, consumables charge) and then they sell your slot on.
The owners of the nurseries are raking it in and really taking the piss if you ask me! Not your nursery alone. You're right to call them out and there's a reason they don't appreciate it. They know it's wrong.

If their mental yis impacted by a few simple questions, I wouldn't trust them to do anything difficult, like actually care for children.

You weren’t unreasonable to ask and shouldn’t have told nursery that you would question it with the council. Why did you go to the council? If the nursery was fleecing parents then they may have to shut to over 3s or charge full price to over 3s instead and you would be in a different screwed situation.

Of course nursery can terminate the contract because they’ve fallen out with you. However they are being dramatic saying that it’s caused mental health issues when simply saying that the investigation was stressful would have sufficed.

The over 3s hours are often called free hours by politicians and the press but are only partially discounted really and nurseries charge for consumables to bridge the gap between what they are paid and the cost that they would charge if there was no funding. I’m not surprised that they charge more for consumables for the over 3s to balance the books

It does seem high to me even taking into consideration the funding levels. From age 3 rations change that's why the council pays less. Far fairer in my options to only use the "free hours" for set sessions and get parents to pay for the dinner hour, breakfast hour and tea time hour if required. It was my understanding you could elect not to pay for consumables and send in your own

Yes they can but they shouldn't be using "mental health" as an excuse.

But that’s the thing - they aren’t raking it in.

They struggle to make money - that’s why so many close down.

This is quite interesting. So if the cost of the place costs more to provide than the government are willing to pay, then the nursery cannot charge a top up fee? Even if it is a private enterprise?
they can only dress it up as “consumables”?
so a parent could say the don’t want any consumables, and refuse to pay?

the nursery could, however, terminate the contract?
have I got that right?
how much does the government pay?

Government nursery funding is complete and utter bullshit tbh. I'd take it up with your MP directly and apologise to the nursery. Not that they should be getting all shitty with you but I guess they're in a bind.

I agree.
To suddenly add a 'consumables' fee when the child isn't actually getting those services is wrong. If you're telling people the fee is foe something then I'd expect that something to be provided.
If its a 'top up'to cover the shortfall then it should be represented as such. It may be perfectly legal but its misleading.

Wait until April when the minimum wage goes up.

I agree.

They need to call the extra £17 what it really is, a top-up charge.

The harming staff's mental health line would get my back up. Is that everyones excuse for everything these days?!

But I think YAB a little U. Apologise and explain you were juat seeking independent information and say what you said here about their care etc never being in question.

£29 extra sounds alot. But our nursery is an extra £60 a day on top of 30hrs funding and set to go up by another 3 percent in April thanks to the NI and minimum wage increase (already went up 10 percent in January). The nursery aren't the problem the stupidity that is our goverment is the problem. Early years was already significantly underfunded. But it's got worse with their costs skyrocketing and their funding not increasing in line with this.

It’s not an excuse to charge parents more to make up that shortfall though! The government want people in work they need to pay the nurseries enough to make it financially viable for them to stay open. Passing the cost onto parents either through high fees or additional fees dressed up as ‘consumables’ isn’t fair.

You are being unreasonable. Good luck finding another nursery, and good luck in life if you are this entitled in general

No she isn't. The hours are already funded.

When UC pay up to 85% of childcare fees do they include the top up fees / consumables ?

I’m not sure what you expected, you’re ‘that’ parent. Best find a new nursery.

Except she didn't just question fees. She then complained to the LA and they were then subject to an investigation. They now feel the relationship had broken down and are considering whether to give notice to the OP. Most settings have waiting lists and her child can most likely be replaced by someone grateful for that place

Well… yes it is an excuse to charge extra to the parents - but that extra is required to keep the business afloat.

Yes of course the government should pay more towards it, but until then… what exactly?

The stricter the rules on charging for consumables, the less nurseries will offer the free hours.

It varies a little by area and goes up a little each year. My understanding is that the rates in Scotland are much more in line with the private provider cost per hour which may be why the Scottish PP hasn’t encountered this.

But I think reimbursement ends up £1-£2 per hour under commercial cost. And now more age groups are eligible for “free” hours and more children have a 30h not 15h entitlement, the nursery can do less cross subsidy from eg a full time baby room place to a pre school room place. Hence the increase in “consumables”