Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

[Girlmum1984]

My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks and we will be able to claim 30 free hours. When this happens, my consumables fee will increase from £12 a day to £29. have questioned this with management and asked for a breakdown of what this fee includes. They have listed food, nappies etc as well as a few activities (baking, PE classes, music classes). The activities listed take place twice month and so far haven’t been on the day that my child attends. All of this would never add up to £29 daily.

Unsatisfied with the response, I emailed the local council to understand how consumables fees can be issued to parents and it there were any regulations. As a result, they contacted the nursery manager and investigated. They were satisfied with the findings and basically said there are no regulations they need to follow when it comes to consumables fees and they can charge what they like. Annoying, but fine.
I have now had an official looking email from my nursery to say I have impacted the staffs mental health by making this enquiry and they are going to discuss whether our contact will be terminated as a result!
I’ve never had any issues with staff in the past and we’ve always been on friendly terms. My daughter enjoys the setting and the care they provide isn’t in question.

can they kick her out as their manager has an issue with me contacting the council about them? Thanks

I’m always shocked about this.

Ive used 3 different nurseries and never had to pay anything at all, funded hours covers everything including lunch.

Ive obviously been extremely lucky. Unless it’s because I literally use the 30 (or less, usually more like 25) and that’s it?

When my son was at nursery a couple of years ago my childcare costs were (85%) funded by universal credit but they wouldn’t help with the consumables, I had to remember to deduct them or they’d refuse the claim. Luckily they were so much less than this, something like a pound a day, but I wonder how some families who are relying on benefits would be able to manage. Agree it’s far more the fault of the government than the nurseries.

I agree fully with this sentiment.

And because technically the consumables charge should be optional then not being able to afford childcare is no excuse and the poorest families will suffer most. It's a poverty trap. £600 a month or loose your childcare. £600 you cannot call childcare costs so cannot have it taken into account by UC. £600 is a lot of money. You could feed and heat a family on that and many of our poorest working people are having to do just this

This happened when my granddaughter became eligible for more ‘funded hours’. Consumables increased from £12 per day to £25. My granddaughter still attended nursery for the same three days after she qualified for the extra funded hours. My son questioned the increase and the nursery backed down as - I assume - they couldn’t justify it. ‘Funded hours’ aren’t really funded at all, the whole scheme is a ripoff. You only get 38 weeks of funded hours a year so if you need more (i.e., if you don’t work in education yourself) the hours are stretched out over the whole year so you pay a huge amount anyway. I’m not bashing the nurseries, they get about a £1 per child per day from the government and they’ve got massive overheads. The scheme shouldn’t be sold as ‘free’ or ‘funded’ - it’s definitely not the former and it’s barely the latter.

They get more than £1?
List here for 2024/25
Funding rates for 2024–2025

• 9 months and older: £9.71 per hour
• 2-year-olds: £7.15 per hour
• 3 and 4-year-olds: £5.18 per hour
• Early Years Pupil Premium (EYPP): £0.68 per hour
• Disability Access Fund (DAF): £910 per year

What LA is this please?

Good grief. OP, I was in a similar boat to you - I reported my son's nursery to Ofsted as children were at risk, and they terminated his place as a result because I 'caused the staff harmful to their 'mental health'. Abysmal. They ended up having an investigation and a report published on their Ofsted page.
You noticed something you believed to be incorrect and raised questions. You were not satsifoed with the response and so escalated it - quote rightly too, as loads of nurseries do try it on (my son's did actually - they've been caught out for that too and had to repay money owed to parents). As long as you were professional and non-aggressive in your correspondence, they should be professional back, and NOT terminate a contract for asking questions and raising concerns. Unfortunately, nursery owners know parents might struggle to get another place and that they hold the power. Disgusting behaviour. I also know that some parents were too frightened to raise things they were really concerned about as they were worried about losing their child's place. One even kept quiet about a child being left on their own as they were scared of rocking the boat.

This. There is a lot of corruption in nurseries. The owner of my son's old one is making a fortune in profit yet cutting corners wherever she can and threatening parents with contract removal if they question anything.

That's not accurate. I believe those are the minimum rates but they vary hugely by area.

Actually the professional advice given by outside agencies, is indeed to give notice. As a childminder I definitely would. Regardless of the outcome, the working relationship and trust has broken down and I would leave myself vulnerable.

And if it's that bad, why would you or your child even want to stay?

Hmmm actually that's not the case. My son's nursery got into trouble for terminating his contract. The reason cited (from the contract) was 'causing harm' to staff... by which mental health was meant (due to reporting them to Ofsted for negligence). Turns out she couldn't do that, and Ofsted looked into that too when investigating them as she clearly terminated my son's contract to shut me up.

Nope - no notice was given. Just simply 'contract has been terminated effective immediately'. This is definitely not "professional advice'.... But thanks anyway.

And in answer to your other question - we obviously wanted the problem solving. If the reaponse had been to sort the issues out immediately and to admit mistakes, I would have accepted that. Hence why I sent my initial concern to the nursery itself. If they had responded professionally, there would have been no need to escalate. This much should be obvious.

Im a childminder- I warn parents that when they start their fees will increase as they get older or I won't be able to offer funding at all. Funding for a 3 year old is half that of a 1 yr old in my area. It therefore makes no financial sense for a childminder to take 3 year olds. Parents need to complain to the government about this, not to the providers. I'm afraid if you'd reported me to the council I'd be livid and I'd see it as a breakdown in trust. Trust between provider and parent is one of the most important things when looking after children and I totally understand why they'd feel the need to terminate. Someone compared this to reporting to Ofsted. This is totally different. You report to Ofsted if you are worried about welfare of a child/children or malpractice. I'd never discourage people from reporting to Ofsted if there were concerns about a setting. However by reporting to the local authority it could result in the nursery being denied the ability to offer funding and therefore become unsustainable and close.

Someone compared this to reporting to Ofsted. This is totally different. You report to Ofsted if you are worried about welfare of a child/children or malpractice. I'd never discourage people from reporting to Ofsted if there were concerns about a setting. However by reporting to the local authority it could result in the nursery being denied the ability to offer funding and therefore become unsustainable and close.

Well said.

@Squeekey
Ah yes it's incorrect - it's actually more than that.

Can't you look after more 3 year olds though (up to 4?).

So potentially receiving £22 an hour?

Expenses generally take anywhere between a 1/3 and 1/2 of takings overall. There is also the question of space as childminders work from there own home.

the big question is would you be happy working extra with more stress for no financial gain? If you were a childminder, would you prefer to look after 3 children and be paid your usual hourly rate, and very much what your worth, or would you prefer to have the extra work of a 4th child in the hopes you would at least make minimum hourly rate? Would you expect to be paid for the work you do in the correct way or would you be willing to take a huge cut but have extra work piled on top?

It's certainly not this much in my LA - it depends heavily where you are. Additionally I think this is the figure before the LA take their 'top slice'. This can currently be 5%, reducing to 4% in April.
Our LA take the full percentage but their 'pot' has increased massively as the amount of funded hours has gone up.

Well said.

I can see why you queried it £29 a day is a lot! I can't imagine that it can really truly be £29 a day, as pp have said they are making up the shortfall between funded hours and actual costs.
I think the funded hours are a bit of a swizz really.
I do think there should be more honesty and transparency about funded childcare provision. Even years ago when mine went there was always a top up, but £29 a day is huge.
I can see why nursery think the relationship broke down as you complained to the council, I would email them back and explain your side of the situation, apologise if your complaint caused distress to the staff and say this wasn't your intention but you were blind sided by the rise in the consumables fee.
Say how much your daughter loves it there and you would like her to continue at the setting-assuming that's true!

Essex is £10.73 p/h for under twos, £7.85 p/h for working family twos (disadvantaged twos get 15p added to make £8 p/h) and 3-4 year olds is £5.23 p/h.

I actually can't believe this is still going 😁

No sign of OP..

I don't blame you one bit for questioning their fees - you won't be the first or the last. The nursery has to make enough money to be able to operate but I wouldn't be happy with the increase in price for supposed 'free hours'. Things have obviously changed big time since I was in your position, my little one loved nursery but it didn't cost more than I was willing to pay. The nursery will be overwhelmed with parents wanting a place for their children - they know that -hence why they can pick & choose.

They didn't "have an issue"... you took an extrremely aggressive course of action that impacted the staffs mental health. The people who care for your child. For the sake of £20 a day. Which you should have known if you asked the right questions when you started her there. Or you could have done a quick Google and shown some compassion.
Not only "can" they do this, they absolutely should.
I do hope this isn't a preschool attached to the school OP, if it is they can't refuse entry (if it's a state school) but you can 100% bet your name has been marked.

Oh fgs.
1 - £20 a day is a fortune for many people - let's bot pretend it's nothing.
2 - using impact on mental health as an excuse because they can't deal with scrutiny is a huge cop out. If they have nothing to hide, there should be no issue.
3 - the OP has every right to ask questions and seek answers; this is not aggressive assuming her emails remained professional.
4 - so many private nurseries exploit desperate parents and get rid of anyone who does not go along with this exploitation or questions it. I can't believe how gullible so many people are on this thread. Open your eyes! Private nurseries have parents over a barrel right now and need better regulation.