Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

[Girlmum1984]

My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks and we will be able to claim 30 free hours. When this happens, my consumables fee will increase from £12 a day to £29. have questioned this with management and asked for a breakdown of what this fee includes. They have listed food, nappies etc as well as a few activities (baking, PE classes, music classes). The activities listed take place twice month and so far haven’t been on the day that my child attends. All of this would never add up to £29 daily.

Unsatisfied with the response, I emailed the local council to understand how consumables fees can be issued to parents and it there were any regulations. As a result, they contacted the nursery manager and investigated. They were satisfied with the findings and basically said there are no regulations they need to follow when it comes to consumables fees and they can charge what they like. Annoying, but fine.
I have now had an official looking email from my nursery to say I have impacted the staffs mental health by making this enquiry and they are going to discuss whether our contact will be terminated as a result!
I’ve never had any issues with staff in the past and we’ve always been on friendly terms. My daughter enjoys the setting and the care they provide isn’t in question.

can they kick her out as their manager has an issue with me contacting the council about them? Thanks

No way do the activities etc amount to £29/day! I’d be annoyed too especially if my child doesn’t attend on the days when these take place.

Are you wondering why they don’t want to do business with you?

This is just another example of private nurseries holding parents over a barrel. I would look for a new setting / childminder / pre-school attached to the school you're planning to attend anyway. It's not the parents' fault that the government funding is inadequate.

Nope, as I said, there are overheads. I've never pretended that there aren't.

Irrespective of whether a particular nursery is viable (or is making sufficient profit to be kept open), it's fraudulent to lie and pretend something is a consumable when it's just supplementing their income.

Can you not send a packed lunch/ own food and nappies. Plus your dc doesn’t even attend for the twice a month activities . £29 per day sounds excessive.

This. £30 per day is a lot of money for some people and can make the difference between eating or heating! Parents should not be charged for items/activities that are not being provided to their child. The parents who are provided with these should pay more

Also while nurseries may be able to pick and choose their customers, they must remember that they are a business and parents are consumers in the relationship, and therefore they are not allowed to put any old shite contract terms in which are totally unfair to the consumer.

To all those saying why can't the setting just be honest about the costs - you're not allowed to! Most setting should happily say - we're charging £X per hour to make up the shortfall in funding. But you're not allowed to because that's a top-up and against the rules. So the LAs encourage settings to charge 'consumables' because they know that they wouldn't be viable without it and the LA has a duty to have sufficient places in their area!

Sounds like you need to start looking for a new nursery.

You think £30 a day is peanuts? Really?

It's not the parents' fault that the government funding is inadequate.

And it’s not the nursery’s fault either. Pre the expansion of early years funding, they could charge market rates for most hours and most age groups. If parents didn’t think it was worth it, they could go the childminder route or juggle family childcare. Now nurseries are instruments for delivering inadequate policies in which they had no say.

It's not fraudulent! It's just you're holding childcare settings to a higher moral standard than any other business. Frankly they are a private business and if you want to use their service then you pay what they tell you they charge. Or you don't use them.

If you want to get all moral and arsey about the free hours not being free then look at the bloody government who have told you that, despite full well knowing it doesn't.

This!

The amount of times I’ve heard someone say it’s not the parent’s fault. I agree, it’s not however the setting shouldn’t be footing the shortfall for your child to access childcare. They’re shouldn’t have to pay for your child, they’re essentially paying for their own wages if that happens. It’s bonkers really, the government is at fault here but they’re more than happy to let settings be in the firing line!

I’m a childminder and, whilst my overheads are on a much smaller scale, I still need parents to help cover the shortfall. If they don’t I’ll have to close as I’ll earn more working in a supermarket with far less stress 🤷🏼‍♀️

Theres been comments that settings shouldn’t be for profit. Yes, I work for a profit, who wouldn’t, that profit pays my mortgage, bills and allows me to feed my children.

But if there was a legal limit to the cost of consumables, and they were breaching that when they shouldn’t, that’s on them. They’d have to reassess their business model.

It sounds like the relationship has broken down already . I wouldn’t take kindly to being told they are considering whether I could stay or I’ve affected their mental health by making a valid query.

Yes it is. Fraud by false representation (s.2 Fraud Act 2006). They are dishonestly making a false representation that the fee is for consumables, when it isn't (especially obvious when they are charging for things a child doesn't actually need or classes when they aren't attending).

I don't think there's be any difficulty establishing that they were 'dishonest', especially given that 'I wouldn't make enough money unless I lied' is unlikely to get much sympathy.

It's straight up fraud.

The government does need to sort out this mess though!

My funded hours are free but have to supply nappies and a packed lunch/ tea. Wipes and snack is provided

So really we have to ask why the government won't let them use the term 'top up fees' and forces a situation by where they need to enhance the cost of their consumables. Surely parents (and settings!) would be happier, as you say, to be more honest about what the cost actually is for. Why won't the government allow it? Because that is the only reason settings aren't doing so.

Thanks for that valuable insight.😬

I’m shocked at how many people are saying you shouldn’t be questioning the fees and they are right!!! What a corrupt way of seeing things, if the nursery has nothing to hide they wouldn’t have an issue. You’re perfectly entitled to raise it higher if they haven’t given you a reasonable explanation and it’s disgusting behaviour to take this out on a child which is what they are doing.

if they do kick your child up you need to raise a formal complaint; it doesn’t matter they need to make their fees up and the poster isn’t saying she won’t pay she just wants an explanation which is fair. Those saying we aren’t saying don’t question it just question the nursery are absolutely saying you can’t raise it higher and that’s wrong

Where is everyone finding these nurseries that charge you for nappies honestly!? This is a new one for me

it’s disgusting behaviour to take this out on a child which is what they are doing.

A business is (potentially) choosing to terminate the contract of a customer who raised a complaint about them which was not upheld and which caused them extra work and stress.

That is completely legitimate business behaviour. Talk of “taking it out on a child” is emotive nonsense.

My nursery charges £28.50 a day to use the hours. It works out that 'funded hours' are about 1/3 of the cost of normal rate. It's still a big discount. Also I get tax free etc on that cost.

If I didn't like it I could send to another nursery that charges less but I chose this nursery for a reason so I pay it.

The government will not allow them to be termed 'top up fees' because that would mean they can't claim the hours are free for PR. The LA will not clamp down on 'consumables' because they're contracted to provide places and they'd be in the shit with the government if half the nurseries closed down. The government won't step in because they will be in the shit if half the nurseries close down and all those parents have to quit working and claim benefits as they can't find childcare.

So they'll let parents fund it 'on the sly' and turn a blind eye.

Exactly this,

Nothing you get from government is “free”. When the NHS was first started Chemists used to have signs up on their counters which said The NHS is not free”. It’s a pity we have all forgotten that. But you are right of course that they shouldn’t be called free hours when they actually cost you money, and quite alot if it at that.