Can’t afford the additional charges at nursery for my 3 year old

[Lilacbluewaters]

Hi,
my son recently started nursery attached to a school, he turns 4 in March. He receives the 15 funded hours. However the nursery have sent an invoice with additional charges for things like nappies. Wipes, extra activities, snacks and their app. I wasn’t aware of this and I can’t afford the extra £80 per month for this.
will I have to withdraw his place?

Well, presumably they wouldn't just arrive at school aged 12 having never been to school before!

It's typical to be potty trained before starting school. If a child is not, then the EYFS teacher/senco would meet with the parents to discuss what's going on. If they are still in nappies, a care plan would be drawn up with an aim to toilet train them. Often there is already involvement with the continence team, so they would be included in the support. This support would be ongoing.

@Shinyandnew1 I think it shows there should be clear differences between a childcare based nursery (where they can help with potty training) and a school based nursery which is more "Reception Lite".
If that makes sense.
As I said earlier using the word "nursery" for such different types of environments makes it all so confusing.
I didn't send my daughter to nursery for childcare - I sent her for a pre-school educational setting.
Maybe the "nursery class" within primary schools should be renamed Lower or Junior Reception (like in America what used to be called Nursery School is now mostly known as Pre-Kindergarden or Pre-K)
Or all schools start using "Foundation" so you have F1 (3-4 year olds) and F2 (4-5 year olds).
Parents can then choose between a pre-school setting or a more childcare setting.
But this is me rambling.......

A 'TA' working in a nursery class/2 year old class would have a level 3 nursery nurse/early years educator qualification just the same as in any other early years setting.
A school can't use any old member of staff without early years training in nursery.

My nursery charges an extra £1 I think it is per funded hour and say its for the same reason- nappies, wipes, extra activities and formula for under 1's. It's not an optional fee as in you can't opt out and provide your own... I think this is pretty standard for funded hours not but that being said they should have informed you about it properly prior to starting so you may get out of paying the first bill unless they can prove they told you and you've missed it!

These charges are how the nurseries can survive, as gov funding isn’t enough for them to operate. This will get worse I imagine if they will end up closing.

Why? As a teacher I don't have the luxury of sending my own children to such a setting because I am at work, perhaps teaching yours. Why should my children get a lesser EY education just because it's a private settings? Not to mention that many, many schools simply don't have nurseries nor the space to incorporate them. Again, why do the children who will go to these schools get a sub-par, and apparently more expensive, experience?

Nursery care, residential care for old people - licence to print money, and ‘care’ is a joke.

@Lilacbluewaters i don’t know if you are keeping up with your thread or if anyone has already said this, but if you are in receipt of UC you can upload your invoice onto your account and receive up to 85% of the invoice back from UC. Alternatively, you can look into tax free childcare which would reduce the £80 per month by 20% too

Only if you are working though.

That’s odd they don’t expect you to provide the nappies and wipes. You can try and claim the invoice back on UC, unfortunately it’s just the way it it nursery fees are extortionate but atleast they are at a pre school with school attached not a private nursery where your costs would be more than double that

@Saltandvin if a child is in a full time child care setting they have to follow the same EYFS curriculum though don't they?
So even in full time they could devote part of the day to doing the same activities as the children in a pre-school nursery do. Do they not do that already?
The difference is a childcare nursery is more set up for things like nappy changes but a school nursery is usually just a regular classroom.
I actually thought it was standard for all primary schools to have a nursery class - I apologise for now realising that isn't the case.

Any nursery has to follow EYFS curriculum/guidance for 3-4 year olds so you shouldn’t get different standard, you might just get different hours. A school nursery will still be set up for children who need nappy changes etc. It shouldn’t be that different, and all school nurseries I know take 2 year olds and many of them are looking at taking 9 month olds. Many schools want to encourage children to come to their nurseries to encourage them to then go on into their schools

@crumblingschools that's what I thought 🤔
Edit: about the following the curriculum thing.
The "school" nurseries taking babies from 9 months is not what I have always thought of school nursery to be.
To me it's a class in a regular classroom often next door to Reception and sometimes sharing the toilets/playground/equipment.
I guess there has been changes since more "free" hours have been bought it.
It's unbelievably confusing now.

Many of the villages around us don’t have separate ‘childcare’ nurseries, so rely on mixture of school nurseries and childminders

Op, if you're on UC you may be able to claim back up to 85% of your childcare fees. Have a look on the childcarechoices website. I'm a childminder and the 3/4 year old funding is only £5 per hour in my area and I charge £7 per hr. So parents pay me £20 per day extra (on a 3 full day per week basis). However you can't call it a top up so you have to invoice it as an extra charge for consumables, nappies, wipes, day trips, playgroup fees, pick up charges, etc. Luckily all my parents are really understanding and happy to pay as they know the situation, but it annoys me that the government call it free hours when it's actually subsided childcare.

Yes but that is why there is no need for 'a clear difference' as you had described. Pre-school rooms in private nurseries are no more or less set up for nappy changes than a school nursery. The vast majority have a pre-school room that is just like a school nursery but with meal times. There is no nap space, nappy change space etc - those exist in the baby room and toddler room generally. And I can assure you, having done the odd day in a school nursery, nappy changes there are par for the course.

Is your child send? Why are they still in nappies ?
potty train them and that will immediately save money.
but yes, extras are quite common so if you can’t afford it I guess you can’t send him?

@Saltandvin as I have said - it sounds like what I have always known as "nursery class" in a primary school sounds very different to what they are now (my experience is from just over a decade ago).
I admit my knowledge now seems to be completely wrong and out of date.
I am actually shocked how much seems to have changed in just a decade.
I think If my daughter was 3 now I probably wouldn't be sending her to nursery because I have no need for childcare. I would probably wait until she was 4 and starting Reception.
I mean in my day we didn't go until 5 anyway.

You know even if you can't be bothered to read the whole thread before commenting, you can just read the OP's posts?

The funding is only permitted to be used for direct nursery time.

Sorry OP i haven't read the thread so not sure if someone has mentioned already. If you're on UC you can claim a 80% of childcare costs back. They require you to provide invoices monthly but i would still query with the nursery why they are charging so much for things you don't need.

If you send him in with everything he needs then surely they won’t charge you for anything extra? My sons preschool asks you to provide a portion of fruit, and lunch if in for an afternoon, along with nappies wipes change of clothing etc so no extra funds needed

For the love of god!

You get x amount per child.

This covers rent, cleaning, toilet paper, soap etc, training and salaries. internet, insurance, admin, stationary, furniture, repairs, maintenance.caretaker, equipment. Additional training for fire marshalls, asbestos training, medical needs, Sendco etc, and supply cover.
Teachers £31.650 starting rate

Access to SALT, any additional needs, assessments, Ed P, maintaining your records and reporting to the LA. Ed P can be over £80 to £120 an hour

Bin collections, paper and medical supplies, electric; rates may apply depending on status. Safeguarding, H&S, Legal services, HR, wage slips, maternity and paternity insurance or paid if not insured, pensions, legionnaires, PAT, deep cleans, advertising a teaching post is about £1000 a time, etc.

That all comes out any payments received.

Funds credited for FSM is at lower rate than the cost. Schools are expected to subsidise costs from their budget. The costs also cover staffing and training for MDS if you employ them rather than having a private provider. There are costs for free fruit and milk too.
There are costs to ensure you correctly record who can access FSMs even if everyone in your class is entitled to FSM.

@cabbageking and your point is?
(also FSM only applies once a child is in Reception)