Can’t afford the additional charges at nursery for my 3 year old

[Lilacbluewaters]

Hi,
my son recently started nursery attached to a school, he turns 4 in March. He receives the 15 funded hours. However the nursery have sent an invoice with additional charges for things like nappies. Wipes, extra activities, snacks and their app. I wasn’t aware of this and I can’t afford the extra £80 per month for this.
will I have to withdraw his place?

A lot of nurseries have to charge extra to keep going as the amount paid by the local authority is too low
A nursery local to us closed down after a parent complained to the local authority about the top up charge
All the parents who had been happy to pay were furious

Same support is available in a non-school setting. I’m involved in just this sort of pre-school, we have support plans just like schools do, can get funding for extra help such as 1-1 support,etc and when children move into school share (with parent permission) all the relevant info so school can get support in place before they start. If your DC gets a diagnosis that leads to DLA they can get extra funded hours. The paperwork is a nightmare though! We don’t charge anything for funded places - though we’re only able to do this because we don’t eg pay rent as part of a church.

@GoldGorillaGums I am going to admit that what I have always known as "school nursery" isn't as standard throughout England as I thought.
However at some point in the last few years it seems the wording around the 15 hours that ALL 3 years old are entitled too has changed from "15 hours of education" to "15 hours of childcare".
The entitlement is based around the academic year though - starts the school term after a child turns 3 and is term time only (unless you opt to stretch the 15 hours so getting less per week). To me 3 hours a day, Mon to Fri, at a school nursery class isn't childcare anymore than full time in Reception upwards isn't childcare.
However I now realise the government are marketing it as 15 hours of "childcare" which I suppose does make it different.
(anyone know when the wording changed??)
I have noticed that the way I write does sometimes sound like I am "stating incorrect facts" when I don't actually mean too. I am going to try and change how I word my comments.
However......I still don't think the OP should be paying anything for a LA nursery class that's part of a primary and I hope she finds out exactly what is going on and gets it sorted.

@jannier - with 24 3 and 4 year olds, if there is a qualified teacher, the other member of staff can be a qualified TA. The other members of staff come under the same 1:13 ratio as the teacher as long as the teacher is present.

If the teacher is not present (lunchtime for instance, then it reverts to a 1:8 ratio.

80 quid is fucking appalling! DS gets 15 hours, 2 days a week, costs me 20 quid a month.

Yes and as Qualified they won't be minimum wage. Of course whether a qualified teacher is the better able to offer the care and attention needed by such young children in such a high ratio is debatable in my opinion a young child needs better than 12 other 2 year olds to compete against for one persons attention....but governments are more interested in getting parents off their backs re childcare than the child.

2 year olds aren’t on a 1:12 ratio. They are on a 1:5 ratio regardless of whether the person looking after them is a qualified teacher or a level 2 or 3 TA.

My clarification of your previous post was to do with your assertion that both members of staff working with 24 x 3 and 4 year olds have to be qualified teachers to retain the 1:13 ratio. They don’t.

That's why I have said eligible.

What’s that for? 2 days with 15 hours funded for 51 weeks of the year would be around £350 for me.

15 hours is only for 38 weeks a year.

if you use the funding over more than 38 weeks then the number of hours per week drops.

They provide snacks and drinks, think it works out at like 2.50 a day. We don't use the full funding, we only use 12 hours a week, 2 days at 6 hours a day and it's only during term time.

Surprised to read how few people realise many little ones aren't potty trained until developmentally ready which is often 3+.

But they do have to be qualified one teacher one qualified TA therefore that's not minimum wage. In our school nursery the 2 and 3 s are mixed so although 1 to 5 in 2s the 3s are 1 to 13 so often staff are distracted by children not on their ratio. Personally I feel 1 yo 13 for a 3 year old is too high especially as qualified to teach isn't the same as qualified in childcare.

I’m amazed some nurseries state children must be out of nappies when schools aren’t allowed to, especially if the nursery is attached to a school.

The app is a business decision not an extra consumable. They have to, by law, keep
you up to date on your child. They can do this easily enough with a folder and a meet up with your child key worker once a year/term what ever is recommended. They can use a book.

@crumblingschools surely schools can only accept children in nappies if they have SEN?
Not just because they aren't potty trained.
Where would they draw the line - 6 year olds, 10 year olds, teens?
(This is where the whole argument of is this childcare or education comes in)

No you have to have one qualified teacher in the class. A level 2 or 3 TA is normal for schools....but they are TAs not childcare so all have different training to early years less experience of the emotional development and the areas like potty training as more focused on teaching ....many of ours swap year groups so you could have someone who was working with 5 and 6 year olds now with 2 and 3.year olds...where expectations are totally different.

Schools cannot discriminate, look at the Equality Act-if a child is in nappies and school-age, they are entitled to a place! They can't say, 'x isn't toilet trained so they can't start'.

@Shinyandnew1 but unless there is medical/sen reasons where do they draw the line?
At what age? 6? 16?
(I have a child with SEN so I am not being goady or anything)

@jannier

All TAs working with Nursery aged children have to have a 'full and relevant' early years qualification.

This means that schools absolutely should not just be moving staff to work in nursery unless they are appropriately qualified. A level 3 qualification in Teaching and Learning in schools is not a full and relevant qualification. In an emergency, someone without the appropriate qualification can be used, but not on a regular basis.

I absolutely agree with you that many school TAs don't have the appropriate training, which is why they are not allowed to be in Nursery.

Experienced teachers earn £50k, the on costs are more than 30%, so that's £65k per teacher x 2 = £130k. Plus cover for supply staff if they are off sick/maternity etc. Slightly over minimum wage.

There is no line. Schools have to accept pupils in nappies.

@Shinyandnew1 even if they were 12 and the parents just said "well she isn't potty trained"?
I don't mean to sound goady.....but there must be a line somewhere. Surely?

@Needmorelego with that age you would either assume some undiagnosed need or neglect

@crumblingschools well exactly.
But presumably a school would be contacting social services or talking to the parents about whether there is a medical/disability need.
If that's the case at what age would they do that? 5? 7? 10?
There must be a line somewhere of "this isn't ok for your child to be nappies".