Can’t afford the additional charges at nursery for my 3 year old

[Lilacbluewaters]

Hi,
my son recently started nursery attached to a school, he turns 4 in March. He receives the 15 funded hours. However the nursery have sent an invoice with additional charges for things like nappies. Wipes, extra activities, snacks and their app. I wasn’t aware of this and I can’t afford the extra £80 per month for this.
will I have to withdraw his place?

But evidently not everywhere. My son's school nursery is the same as the private one except that it's closed during school holidays and inset days.

So the kids wear uniform but go 8am -6pm? Bizarre.

it’s called consumables charge at my dd’s nursery and it’s like £10 a day to make up what they say is a shortfall, it’s a private nursery though so for every person who says they can’t afford that there’s someone on the waiting list who will pay, 30 hours is only actually 3 full days there so many people are still paying £120 for the extra two days plus £50 a week consumables so paying hundreds a month for ‘free hours’, luckily we only need 3 days. If you need less than the hours you’re using can you just use 10 hours and use 5 hours to cover the shortfall.

Back in around 2003 when I used to take my nephew to school nursery, so the one you attend the term after you turn 3 (year before reception) it truly was ‘free’… my sister would not have been paying for anything and would have been highly affronted if asked. You either did 9-12, 5 days a week, or 12.30-3.30 5 days a week. No flexibility or changing from morning to afternoon. No option for lunches or breakfast club. Now the school nursery near me you can do breakfast club (£7), after school club (£7), pay £5 for a lunch hour to bridge the gap between the morning and afternoon session, and add sessions ad-hoc for £25. Essentially you can do 7.30am-6pm if you pay for all the add-ons. Financially it’s actually cheaper to stay at expensive private nursery, the state school nurseries are trying to keep up with demands of working families but it’s just meaning everything is super expensive .

My DCs nursery doesn't charge any extra on top of the funded hours. Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner and 2 snacks included, lovely setting with lots of facilities and great staff. The owner had recently opened up another nursery in the next town so clearly the nursery is financially viable. I do wonder how much the nurseries insistent on top up fees actually require it, I suspect some may just be greedy and exploiting the uproar in the media when the free childcare for working parents was announced.

this is not that uncommon, school nursery but you can pay for morning and afternoon sessions on same day, pay for a lunch and pay for wraparound, so it’s basically a full day. The school nursery near me offers all this, so you can technically attend 7.30am-6pm 5 days a week if you want, but it costs more than private nursery in the end . My dd’s private nursery have figured this out and now offer a separate 3-4year old room with a uniform, book bags and home learning. They’ve definitely figured out that for some people staying at a 7.30am-6pm environment is more convenient and are getting more and more kids attending instead of dropping off at 3 for school nursery

If they have not been upfront with you about these costs you shouldnt pay. They dont have a leg to stand on.

Or no uniforms, 9am-3pm, kids from 2 years, rooms run by nursery nurses.

Yeah so anyrhing run by nursery staff isn’t a pre school nursery as part of a school. The whole point is it’s run by school teachers and the ratios are much lower etc. there IS a difference between daycare and preschool nurseries like the poster I quoted was trying to point out

2 adults for 24 three year olds is not the normal ratio unless the staff are 2 qualified teachers....raising the ratio to 1 to 13 children....who then won't be earning minimum wage.
How do you know that the rate is £5? In my area the rate is not the same for every provider despite the published rate paid to the la by the government the la takes off it's admin percentage then applies it's funding formula so even 2 providers of the same type won't necessarily get the same rate.

But, schools can run nursery provision in all kinds of ways. Some will have a 'nursery class' with a teacher, and others run preschool or daycare type nurseries in their buildings.

1 qualified teacher and 1 level 3 nursery nurse - but agree the teacher won't be on minimum wage.

@Nollybolly6 I get what you mean . Ppl call it nursery (as in day care, what I call ‘private day nursery’ ) but then there’s what ppl also call nursery but I’d call ‘preschool nursery’ as in it’s almost just like another class in a primary school usually in a little flat roof building in the grounds of a primary school. THEN you get weirdness like schools that have a small nursery in their grounds that’s called something RELATED to the school - so St John’s Primary with ‘Johnnie’s Nursery’ in the grounds. Or Wood Road Primary with ‘Little Wood Nursery’ . You think they’re the same entity. But they aren’t. So frigging confusing! Often the nursery provision is the same one who runs the before and after school club provision and is a separate business with separate ofsteds.

That’s completely unacceptable that you should be paying for other children’s wipes and nappies while your child is clean and toilet trained.
Refuse to pay it.

Yes, he wears a uniform , I don't comprehend why this is so hard to understand 😂

But some schools offer the 15 hours over 2.5 days so children are in for 2 full days

Education is not well funded. People have been pushing for education to be funded better for years. This isn't new. Staff fund a lot through their own wages.

As a PP said, the word 'voluntary' has been removed by the Dept for Education with regard to top up/care packages/consumables/extras. The provider is asked to provide an alternative such as a parent providing nappies/food etc but alternatives can also include the provider restricting when the funded hours are taken so there is a charge for certain hours or withdrawing a place completely.

The 3/4 year funding rate is much lower than the 2 and under funding rate which is why settings will charge extra for 3/4 year olds. However the nursery should not be charging for nappies or wipes for a child that doesn't require nappies or wipes.

It's an absolute scandal that the governments have continued to call it free childcare when, as everyone who works in childcare knows, it is subsidised childcare. Parents expect completely free childcare when that is very rarely the case.

There is a huge crisis in childcare with not enough places available for the number of children that are now on funded hours. It will only get worse in September when the 15 hours increases to 30.

OP, by all means query why the nursery wants to charge you for nappies and wipes. That is not on. Ask for a fully itemised invoice. However, childcare settings are now permitted to charge extras and this should have been detailed in the contract/paperwork that you signed and agreed to.

Can’t some people get 30 hours funded?

@Needmorelego historically it was that 15 hours gets you 3 hours a day, 5 days a week at a preschool nursery within a primary school, and yes you’re right, it’s education not care. However times have changed and not many people can be around to drop off at 9am and back to pick up at 12noon every day. Even for me in the 90s, my mum used a childminder every day to pick me up and have me til 4pm as my mum worked, but this was quite unusual. And my mum did 10-3 daily which now seems like a dream to me haha.

15 hours now only equates to 1.5 days funded at my DD’s nursery as one day is 8-6 which is 10 hours even if you want to collect at 3pm you can’t have the 3 hours ‘back’, the hours are the hours.
So unless you only work literally 1.5 days a week you’re going to be paying for nursery or someone/something to cover the shortfall

Currently eligible 3/4 year olds can get 30 hours. From September, eligible 1 and 2 year olds will also get 30 hours.

Yes it is extremely misleading, this is my child’s first setting so I did believe the 15 free funded hours was free. I will challenge the nappies, wipes and snacks as my child doesn’t require nappies or wipes and I’ll provide a snack however what about the app? It is an app they use to upload photos of the children and log what they do etc. also they charge for extra curricular activities but not sure what they entail yet

@Lilacbluewaters it sounds like you don’t actually need the nursery to cover childcare whilst you work so have you considered something like a church run pre school, my friends dd goes to one 9-12 daily 5 days a week and it’s completely funded by the 15 hours. She packs a snack and drink, the kids don’t even get a cup of water it’s all provided by parents but it’s a good little setting and they’re quite common if you seek them out.

The nursery will probably insist on you paying for the app as that will be how they communicate with all parents about their child's progress. If you opt out of the app then they will not be fulfilling their duty in communicating with parents and tracking your child's development. Most nurseries use some sort of app that they pay for. Some childminders do and some don't.

It comes down to different understandings of the words used I think. To me, being ‘in school’ means in a classroom learning environment. If I’m understanding your situation, your DC is in a classroom standard school hours (9-3) but with wrap around care either side. While he may well be on school property 7:45-17:00, to me he’s ’in school’ 9-3 and in childcare the other hours. But forgive me if I’m wrong!

I haven’t heard of this type of setting before but I feel it is beneficial for him to experience what school will be like come September as he is neurodivergent and awaiting an autism assessment. I am worried he won’t manage so if he’s in a setting now connected to the school then they can get support in place before he starts reception which I don’t think would happen otherwise