Can’t afford the additional charges at nursery for my 3 year old

[Lilacbluewaters]

Hi,
my son recently started nursery attached to a school, he turns 4 in March. He receives the 15 funded hours. However the nursery have sent an invoice with additional charges for things like nappies. Wipes, extra activities, snacks and their app. I wasn’t aware of this and I can’t afford the extra £80 per month for this.
will I have to withdraw his place?

Well yes, but the wrap around care is done by the same staff in the same room.
But my initial post was responding to someone asserting that 2 year olds or under 2s cannot attend school nurseries. Which they can!

@Lilacbluewaters ah I see. Just playing devils advocate but you’re absolutely sure that your child will get a place in reception at the same school aren’t you? Because entry to the nursery doesn’t guarantee entry to reception it’s a totally different application process. And you may need to be in catchment/fulfil other criteria for a place in reception as nurseries don’t have catchments even the ones inside schools

Fully agree OP, it’s ridiculous.

Our DD is three and has 30 free hours (I think because we both work).

They still manage to charge us £100+ every month. £40 for dinners (even though Reception-Yr2 children get it free), and then they conjure up an extra £40+ or more of “fees” every month.

That being said, I still remember when I used to pay £900 a month when my eldest was little, so it’s not as bad as that. But it IS meant to be “free childcare”, so it’s very dishonest.

Edit: I seemed to have cleared the quote but was in response to 'not having heard it called Reception for over a decade'

We call it Reception where I teach and, like in many schools with mixed year group classes, the children in that year group within the class are referred to as 'the receptions'. Our head is an Ofsted inspector so it can't be that unusual or I'm sure we would have updated.

@Lilacbluewaters also just thinking can you apply for DLA for your son and carers allowance for you you don’t need a diagnosis and then use the money to pay the extra nursery costs

also have you chatted to the nursery this and are you in receipt of benefits because I’d bet a fiver if it’s a school nursery there is some sort of help for families eligible for free school meals or in receipt of certain benefits

£80 is a lot, I am sure you won't be the only one who can't afford it.

I think if a few of you got together and objected, they might reduce it or you could reach a compromise.

@Mustard3 annoying as it is it’s not supposed to be free childcare the 2/3/4 yo funding is supposed to be there to encourage children to get a good start in life and offer an early years education it’s not compulsory as compulsory school age is 5, that’s why costs aren’t covered like they are in reception and up like you refer to in your post about free school meals.

It's not legally forceable. We refused to pay and took legal action. The legislation is very clear on what they can and can't charge for.

It's funded childcare but unfortunately the government doesn't fund it enough to make it completely free.

I charge a top up as a childminder because otherwise I would be losing money on funding.

Sorry but you could not be more wrong.

”not supposed to be childcare”

It is 30 hours free childcare for working parents.

To quote the government website:

Check you're eligible for free childcare if you're working
You may be able to get free childcare for your child aged 9 months to 4 years old if you live in England.
The amount of free childcare you can get depends on…….
If you’ve already registered, you can sign in to your childcare account.

@Mustard3 yes but I’m talking about nurseries that are part of primary schools .

Copy and pasted straight off my local education authorities website: “Every child aged three and four is eligible to access up to 570 hours of free early education per year, 15 hours term time or stretched over the year. The free places are available in settings that are Ofsted registered and are on the local authority register of eligible providers.”

Tbh I don’t think the government even know what they are funding whether they want to encourage people to work or call it educational, it’s confusing isnt it, and nowt in the world is free!

Why did you reply to me then?

As it happens, my DD does go to a nursery that’s attached to a primary school
(academy).

You can use the 30hr free childcare scheme at all childcare settings. And it is meant to be used by working parents as free childcare. So I really don’t get your point.

Maybe I @ the wrong person.

It’s explicitly stated all over the government website that the purpose of the 30 free hours for working parents* *scheme is to provide childcare to enable parents to return to work. Google “free childcare working parents.”

There is a separate scheme which provides 15hrs of free childcare to all two-year-olds (regardless if parents are working). I think this is what OP is referring to. This may have originally conceived to help prepare children for school. However it is also explicitly referred to on the government website as “free childcare”.

You can’t really say “oh to be fair it’s not meant to be used as free childcare”, because that’s what both government schemes are named. It’s meant to be free, and it’s meant to be used as childcare (eg you can use it for nannies or childminders too, NOT just in school nurseries).

Just tell them you don't require the app. Your child is only there for a few hours each morning, I'm sure you can cope without photos. I do think some settings spend more time snapping pics and using these bloody apps than looking after the children.

There was no such things as these silly apps years ago, just tell them you don't need it. They should be giving you a verbal debrief when you collect your child each day.

If you work then claim up to 85% of your childcare costs via UC. It doesn’t matter if they have funded hours, even if you pay less than £100 a month, UC will contribute towards it

It is means tested though. If you earn over the threshold you only get 15 hours from 3 and nothing else.

You absolutely need a break down of what those costs are, and I would say you should be asked in advance.
My boys were in school nursery. We paid £2.25 for lunch, but your child is only doing half days. No cost for snack and milk. Those in nappies provided their own. Any trips that cost money had a letter sent out for you to sign and return and it certainly didn't come to £20 a week!!

This is ridiculous. If he is not in nappies, you are being charged £80 per month for snack.

@Lilacbluewaters The nursery will have signed a funding agreement with their Local Authority that will contain a section on additional charges as laid out in the statutory guidance by the DfE.

Contact the Early Years team who administer the funding at your local authority who can help you with this. They should look into whether or not the charges are acceptable as per the funding agreement.

I'd respond by reminding them that your child doesn't wear nappies and that, in child's bag, you pack two snacks and water for them to consume. Ask them how much of the fee is payable by you? They should revise the ammount considerably.

Sorry but it absolutely is childcare, it can be dressed up however they want but it’s no different to any private day nursery in terms of what they do and do not offer. They both have to follow the EYFS in the same way.

It’s quite common place for children in a pre-school setting to be in nappies and lots of pre-schools do now accept 2 year olds, for no other reason than it makes them more money.

Funding for 2 year olds is nothing to do with benefit or SEN anymore and changed last September, the vast majority of 2 year olds are entitled to 15hrs funding.

You seem to have been misinformed somewhere along the line and are now sharing lots of this misinformation.

I think the waters are muddied by things like wearing uniform and going to assembly. Pre-school is not school - it is not compulsory, the majority of schools don't even have a class below reception and nursery children don't have a place at the school after their pre-school year without going through the same application as everyone else.

You can tell yourself what you like about what they're being taught, but an Outstanding private nursery is probably providing better early years education than an RI school nursery. The 15 hours that is intended to give all children the best start is available at private settings too and children are taught exactly the same thing. The fact they have longer hours just means they do activities for longer, not that they don't follow the EYFS for some of the hours as a pp suggested.

I understand why you're annoyed at the top ups OP but I'm not sure why it's any less fair than for a parents whose only choice is to use a private provision, which could also be for 'education not childcare'. The problem is the government underfunding and the fact nowhere should have to charge for top ups.