A bit of an upsetting thread but please let me know your thoughts.

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

I haven't been on mn for a while but I hope you can help me get to terms with this.

Our nanny has always been wonderful , really good with the children and we never had any concerns. She pretty much became part of the family over the last few months.

We had an incident last week and I have 'suspended' her since. I feel so awful about it and don't know what to do.
We are in a new house and have had lots of decorating done lately. This means loads of tools and paint etc around the house but I have been careful about where the children go, and to clean it up.

Last friday I got a call from our nanny, in tears, saying we should meet her at the hospital. One of the ambulance crew took over the call and told me DS had been in the bath with a bottle of white spirit.

Her story is she left him for a couple of minutes (oh my gosh!) and came back to find him with the empty bottle in the bath and the whole place reeking of turps. He was hysterical so she first showered him off (good) then dashed to call an ambulance whilst he sat under the shower.

He is fine, he had a really bad dry skin afterwards but we have been reassured he didn't ingest anything. I just hope there will be no long term effects.

I just can't stop going over this. It was first the decorators fault for leaving it in the bathroom when he knows we have small children, then mine for not checking. Then hers for leaving him in the bath alone!?

I couldn't stop crying and it has become the typical thing, I feel guilty for going to work now and leaving my children. I never thought I would be that woman, but this has really shaken me.

Can anyone advise, as a parent, or as a caregiver, what I should feel or do about this?

I am more with harpsi on this one... I am not perfect with my kids, and would only expect a nanny to do her best. Very unfortunate that the bottle was there, and open, but no lasting harm done. It seems she handled the emergency well and did not try & cover it up in any way - which would have been truly dreadful.

I would vote for patching things up - especially as you and the children seem to get on so well with her. She will be super careful in future!

Was it the friend she has become or the childcarer who left your child unattended in the bath?

Hard to say, but you should not really make good friends with your employees because it makes the distinction between friend and employee really hard, the lines become blurred.

If she wasnt your friend now, you would know that the correct thing to do was to dismiss her on the grounds of gross misconduct.

QS - if someone lives in your house, isn't it healthier for your children if they are a friend, rather than just strictly an employee?

i would say a bad thing to happen all round, but i cant see it really being anyones fault.

i would say it depends on her reaction to it, if shes as cut up about it as you are then i would be happy to discuss how she would make sure thingsl ike this never happened again and then have her back. if shes not she doesnt have the bond with your kids that she needs!

I also thought the bath was empty. Was she bathing him with water in, left the room for something, and he managed to reach the shelf to get the bottle?

If yes to everything

1. She should know better than to leave a child alone in the bath. What was she doing?
2. Why did the decorators leave it with the lid off?

I do feel she should be given another chance. Everyone is happy with the work situation and she did the right thing by showering him and phoning 999.

I would talk to her.

I bet she is scared of what is going to happen.

She shouldn't have left him on the bath alone for a couple of minutes, and she should have seen the white spirits - an open bottle! - and removed it. Thank God he didn't drink any.

You've done the right thing susspending her - accidents do happen- but this one probably shouldn't have happened - I simply can't get past the fact that she must have seen the bottle of open spirits (after all the two year old saw it!) and still left the child alone with it.

I think to be fair, if she had seen it, she would have moved it. Wouldn't she?

I don't know. I used to leave my ds alone in the bath for a bit when he was not much older than this, but I would NEVER have done it for more than a second with a child I was nannying for. It's a different thing entirely, to me - as someone said, as a nanny, it isn't your risk to take.

I agree.

I used to be a nanny and I was ultra careful as I would have hated to have to tell their mum something had happened.

actually maybe this incident has given her such a fright she will actually be a better nanny because of it.

Yes, that was my point too Belgo.

sorry vanillapumpkin - I haven't actually read the thread

Being honest I have left ds in the bath just to get his towel or something or get his jim-jams ready. Could this have been how it happened with the nanny (rather than painting the picture that she was downstairs reading grazia or something).

FWIW ds has sprayed Mr. Muscle in his eyes right in front op me and dh so accidents can happen anywhere to anyone.

If this is a one off occurence with your nanny then I would reconsider your suspension and have a sit down giving her clear guidelines etc

Oooh no belgo, I was just saying (badly) that I agreed with you .

I think you really need to talk to her in person and find out, in detail, exactly what happened - why was he in the bath alone, what was she doing, did she see the white spirit, was it open or closed (my children have been known to get the childproof lock off a bottle of Calpol and swig it at a similar age )

I think talking to her will give you a better idea about how to proceed from here. The fact that she didn't cover it up speaks volumes IMO, I doubt she'd do it again whereas with a new nanny you'd be starting from scratch from that point of view. Difficult one though, I really feel for you.

As a nanny myself i wouldn't leave a child of 2.5 in the bath alone even for a couple of minutes. I am guessing your poor nanny is probably feeling really guilty and upset about what has happened and i do think you should talk to her about it.

dd 2.5 is in the bathroom next to me as I type this !! very close can hear every splash - she is singing "12345 once I cought a fish alive !) I don`t think leaving in the bath is always bad - only you know the layout of the house and therefore how safe to supervise remotely it is .
Understand you are upset but the house should be checked for things lying about . I do a twice daily "sweep " even at this age as DH still does stupid things like leaving cooker with pot handle lid overhanging etc .
The white spirit being left is not really her fault though she should have done her own "sweep" before leaving the room .
However we have all made errors and alzone says she handled it excellently ..
Hang on to her ..

should also say I mean by supervise remotely - I can see her via a mirror from right here !!

Was the white spirit in the corner of the window ledge behind a curtain? I've left a bathroom spray there before now, and not noticed it when the DS's are in the bathroom. An accident.

Leaving the child in the bath - hmm, difficult one. I do leave my two in the bath (to go to the loo, grab PJ's or a towel)- they are nearly 4 and 18 months. I wouldn't leave the 18m old unless the 4 year old was in with him. Having said that, I probably would cross the landing to grab a towel, but then that distance is probably less than the size of some bathrooms. I would only leave them where I could hear them - I can tell instantly if anything happens. However, completely hypocritically, I would be upset if anybody else did this. I know that I can listen to them and know if something is wrong. DH can't. I can hear from downstairs from the tone of voices if they are happily playing or fighting. DH can't even hear if they are screaming.

Do you think that your nanny has that sort of 6th sense? I suppose she wouldn't say if she was any further away than 'getting a towel' but I agree that if you have her back, you will have the worlds most careful nanny. I'd probably give her a second chance TBH.

I would give her a second chance too. As some have already said, she has probably learned a whole big lesson after this episode and it will make her a better nanny. Seems like she is perfect in every other way apart from this.

Hope you are able to sort it out.

FWIW, my 2.1 year old has broken into the bathroom on her own whilst I was hoovering up a huge mess she'd made.

Accidents can happen with children this age to anyone.

Glad you DS is home.

I'd give the nanny another chance.

I think I would give the nanny another chance because 1- she is very unlikely to ever do that again and 2- she did actually do a good job of dealing with the crisis when it arose.

I might, however, see if I could find a course or even a book on household health and safety. I have no idea where you would find this though.

I am in the camp of giving her a second chance, but subject to what comes out of a very serious talk - so I wouldn't make your mind up yet. (Incidentally I think it was quite wise of you to do the suspension, though, as it gives both of you space to think.)

I think you and she should schedule a talk, not so that this particular incident can be discussed in detail - but so that she can tell you exactly how & why she has learnt from it. She needs to convince you that she has learnt from it, and she needs to give you chapter and verse about what things will be like from now on. If you get a lot of defensiveness ("it wouldn't have happened if X called me out of the room" or blaming the decorators) then that is not a good sign the lesson has been learnt.

The other thing that strikes me is that - you mentioned her bereavement. People can get less focussed for a bit after something like that, quite understandably - more likely to not notice details or so on. Do you think the bereavement has hit her harder than it shows? So might she might time away from the job because of that?

PS - when ds was 2 or 3 he went round with our nanny to some slightly shambolic friends of ours, who were having work done on their house. Ds ran off into another room, where a huge solid wooden door had been loosely propped against a wall - it crashed down right on his head. Our nanny was in bits and took every bit of blame going - and I just knew she would never let anything happen again. It never did!

i really think you should give her a second chance - you have a good relationship - your kids love her

we all make mistakes and she shouldn't have left him in the bath but really the blame lies with the decorator who left a dangerous chemical open where children obviously go

also don't blame yourself or nanny, it was just one of those things

ps she'll be SOOO careful now

I also agree that I don't feel leaving your child alone was her risk to take. It would really concern me. She MIGHT be a better nanny after this, but I don't think you should feel obliged to test this out if you are really uncomfortable. I liked Bink's advice a lot and if hte conversation still leaves you uneasy then i think it's best to part ways.

I think it's bizarre she didn't notice the white spirit, but then because I have no idea how it was laid out in the room (easily reachable, etc) it is difficult to say.