Why do people complain about childcare costs?

[Teawithsugar40]

I’m a working mother and 65% (was previously near 100%) of my salary goes on childcare, we get by but holidays etc are out of the question. We’re not rich and have small children, it’s just how it is. I don’t resent what we pay and feel quite lucky that we’re a few hundred better off than if I was doing the equally important job of caring for my children full time.
Maybe because when I had my first child there was absolutely no childcare help and scant provision but I really don’t understand so many people these days complaining about childcare costs, especially when it still leaves them better off working? Totally understand single parents needing help and thankfully they have had generous help for years but why are couples who are definitely not on the breadline complaining? Did they seriously think they could have children without making any sacrifices and why do they expect people often worse off them themselves to pay for maintaining their previous lifestyle?

From a logical standpoint if using childcare full time to cover your working hours then someone else is working those hours for you (plus additional costs, insurances, location, qualifications etc) so yes even if looking after my little children you would expect that it takes up a full wage or a large percentage.
So complaining it is expensive does suggest they feel childminders should be paid less which is not good - why should they paid less than you? The only solutions are to reduce the quality (have more children per person) which may not be desirable, or more funding from government, however this means everyone pays for your choice to have children and bears the burden. Given other services such as NHS and social care are collapsing I don’t think that is reasonable at the moment. But I think people can complain all they want about whatever they want and sometimes it’s a good release for them.

We probably would fit into your definition of people not on the breadline. Living in the SE both in senior manager roles. BUT we had twins and childcare costs us £3k a month. Once I’ve paid for commuting costs, I take home pennies a month. (Of course we split childcare costs but I’m making an example).
People complain about childcare costs because they are SO expensive, it would be almost better for me to give up work.

@Rrrob

We probably would fit into your definition of people not on the breadline. Living in the SE both in senior manager roles. BUT we had twins and childcare costs us £3k a month. Once I’ve paid for commuting costs, I take home pennies a month. (Of course we split childcare costs but I’m making an example). People complain about childcare costs because they are SO expensive, it would be almost better for me to give up work.

I see it as an investment. If you give up work you miss out on pension contributions and lose out professional experience. It's harder to get back in once you're out.

Was it nuts though for the work that had to go into providing the care for your children. Was that not worth what you were paying?

Nobody is saying that the inherent cost of childcare is too much. If I had to look after a room full of toddlers I’d want a 6 figure salary! The problem is that the cost falls squarely at the feet of parents, who are maybe just about getting by. When something has to give, it’s nearly always the mother who loses out. Subsidised nursery places keep women in work and, as Europe of shown, benefit society both socially and financially.

@MissBattleaxe

We’d still be as well off as the single parent getting their childcare costs paid

not sure well off is the right phrase to use here.

Look, in a nutshell, UK childcare costs are an absolute scandal that are disenfranchising many women. The UK has the third highest childcare costs in the world (New Statesman). 49% of lone parent families are living in poverty (CPAG 2020 figures). Something is going very wrong here.

‘As well off as…’ doesn’t equate to the phrase that someone is ‘well off ‘ I’ve been a single parent so know exactly what it’s like to live on that income. Yes when there was no help as a single parent towards childcare costs this did disenfranchise me but there has been help since 2001, I’ve not felt childcare costs have held me back, workplace policies, lack of flexible working and the difficulties in maintaining a decent worklife balance when the pace and demands of work are so frantic nowadays etc absolutely yes but not the fact we can’t afford a holiday, meals out or can’t afford to live in an expensive part of the country because of our nursery bill

even if looking after my little children you would expect that it takes up a full wage or a large percentage. So complaining it is expensive does suggest they feel childminders should be paid less which is not good - why should they paid less than you
That doesn't work completely though. If I pay all my wages to a nursery, it covers a person's wages but my child doesn't have 121. So 30 parents are each paying £24 k a year which is £720k. If you've got 10 staff averaging that £24k that's only £240k.

Now obv that's massively simplistic. There will be managers in higher wages, business costs, insurance, equipment, food, and of course private businesses need to make a profit. But I think in an instinctive response sense that's why it doesn't feel OK to be paying your full wages over to a nursery.

@Teawithsugar40

I’m a working mother and 65% (was previously near 100%) of my salary goes on childcare, we get by but holidays etc are out of the question. We’re not rich and have small children, it’s just how it is. I don’t resent what we pay and feel quite lucky that we’re a few hundred better off than if I was doing the equally important job of caring for my children full time. Maybe because when I had my first child there was absolutely no childcare help and scant provision but I really don’t understand so many people these days complaining about childcare costs, especially when it still leaves them better off working? Totally understand single parents needing help and thankfully they have had generous help for years but why are couples who are definitely not on the breadline complaining? Did they seriously think they could have children without making any sacrifices and why do they expect people often worse off them themselves to pay for maintaining their previous lifestyle?

@Teawithsugar40 Your attitude is hugely unhelpful and very condescending.

Very few seriously think their lifestyle won’t be impacted by having children. But I don’t think we all go into having children with the full realisation of how much children and childcare costs.

We had Child Tax Credits without which childcare costs would have been impossible to cover. Once they went, our finances took a massive hit. We didn’t have holidays, didn’t have anything done to the house beyond bare essentials. Still stuck in a house that is really too small for us but equally we have a roof over our heads and now a reasonable standard of living so I’m fortunate.

I massively resent what the cost of childcare did to us. I do have to accept it as the cost of having children. With the cost of living rising, it’s going to put more pressure on families, some who really have nowhere to go financially speaking.

@cakeandcustard

It should be heavily subsidised by the government. You can't panic about a falling birth rate while simultaneously making it prohibitively expensive to have children

This.

My childcare payment is double my mortgage payment.
I don't complain as such but I'm not left with much to live on.

You must have some gap between your children for there to have been no help at all with your first child. Childcare vouchers were in place for women working outside the home.
Society needs children, we need the next generation. We should be supporting safe affordable childcare.

@AliceW89

Was it nuts though for the work that had to go into providing the care for your children. Was that not worth what you were paying?

Nobody is saying that the inherent cost of childcare is too much. If I had to look after a room full of toddlers I’d want a 6 figure salary! The problem is that the cost falls squarely at the feet of parents, who are maybe just about getting by. When something has to give, it’s nearly always the mother who loses out. Subsidised nursery places keep women in work and, as Europe of shown, benefit society both socially and financially.

If a woman gives up work because on the balance of things she feels the sacrifices for the financial gain are not worth it for her family, wouldn’t it be better workplace practices or policies are examined as to how they can be improved to offer a better balance or maybe she’d just prefer to care for her children over working at that point as many women do. Many women then return to work well below their skill level when they are ready to return to work because of discrimination and lack of support or they live in poverty during this time because all the help is directed at childcare. This is the real issue that needs to be tackled

If I was a single parent I’d be getting 80% of my childcare costs paid for me.

🙄 No. You wouldn't.

I think I see the issue here OP. You don't understand the financial impact of childcare costs on any household other than your own.

That may have been a better thread title.

I think your post is demonstrating quite a strange false equivalence. I knew how much childcare was before deciding to start a family. I appreciate it’s a badly paid and under valued career and I’m not in any way suggesting that childcare workers should get less than they do. Those facts don’t change the fact that childcare is a huge proportion of our monthly costs and I might want to moan about it sometimes. It’s not because I didn’t know. It’s not because I would take it off the nursery workers if I could. It’s just because I’d love to spend the £1000 a month on something else. And because it irritates me that the Government approach to funding childcare is to pay providers less than it costs and make it hard for them to stay afloat without lots of creative charges for “extras” that the government then tells them they shouldn’t make. I would be strongly in favour of a fairer approach to funding childcare for parents and providers and if I want to moan about how much better it is in Scandinavia I will!

Yes we should be grateful for an underfunded sector in which the staff barely get minimum wage, one which forces many couples to choose both staying in work and one staying home (usually the woman of course), and one that costs more than some people working full time earn.

@EthelMerman

We’re in the same position, no holidays etc but it’s what we expected. I’ve made it clear all the way through that I think it’s a positive thing families on low incomes get help towards childcare costs.

Because we have some of the highest childcare costs in the world. Because I’m places like Germany it’s subsidised.
Because it’s a tax on women - it makes many women feel like it’s not worth working even though in the long run they’d be better off. It means sex equality is nowhere near being achieved

@HeyDiddleDee

I think your post is demonstrating quite a strange false equivalence. I knew how much childcare was before deciding to start a family. I appreciate it’s a badly paid and under valued career and I’m not in any way suggesting that childcare workers should get less than they do. Those facts don’t change the fact that childcare is a huge proportion of our monthly costs and I might want to moan about it sometimes. It’s not because I didn’t know. It’s not because I would take it off the nursery workers if I could. It’s just because I’d love to spend the £1000 a month on something else. And because it irritates me that the Government approach to funding childcare is to pay providers less than it costs and make it hard for them to stay afloat without lots of creative charges for “extras” that the government then tells them they shouldn’t make. I would be strongly in favour of a fairer approach to funding childcare for parents and providers and if I want to moan about how much better it is in Scandinavia I will!

👆🏻 @HeyDiddleDee is spot on. (Though I was more ostrich-like when it came to childcare costs)

[quote Teawithsugar40]@EthelMerman

We’re in the same position, no holidays etc but it’s what we expected. I’ve made it clear all the way through that I think it’s a positive thing families on low incomes get help towards childcare costs.[/quote]
Just because you're happy to pay a tonne more than nearly any other country in the world, it doesn't mean its a good thing, it means you're a bit of a mug who is happy to accept what crap the government throws at people.

The problem is the cost of living has massively increased but wages have not so for a lot of people there is a massive struggle. If you do earn enough to pay all bills with money to spare you shouldn't really complain you are in a privileged position. I was a childcare provider, I wasn't well off but so many parents whilst they appreciated what I did they begrudged they cost. I generally found well off people who did not get childcare subsidised were worst.

@WhiteCatmas

You must have some gap between your children for there to have been no help at all with your first child. Childcare vouchers were in place for women working outside the home. Society needs children, we need the next generation. We should be supporting safe affordable childcare.

Yes I do, when I had my first there was no direct help towards childcare at all. You received a maximum of up to £75 of what you paid in childcare costs disregarded from your earnings in the assessment of family credit. That was it. I ended up having to give up my job, studies etc because there was no help at all. This was the time of the true ‘benefits trap’ Was hugely different to all the support available since 2001

I was £150 worse off so left. It wasn't sustainable to work to pay nursery fees so I've taken a career break.

@Fallagain

The UK has the second highest childcare costs in the world.

That is because we have some of the strictest standards with Ofsted, alongside how government subsidies. The only way to reduce costs is either fewer staff ratios or more government subsidies. The workers are badly paid.

OP you should have looked up the median wage in the UK before posting.

You sound incredibly privileged and out of touch with reality.

When our adoption leave ends we’ll be paying £1,240 a month for three days a week, it would be £1,960 if we needed five days.

Good quality childcare with appropriate hours isn’t affordable for a lot of parents, we need more subsidised childcare in the UK. Early years is really neglected by our government.