Why do people complain about childcare costs?

[Teawithsugar40]

I’m a working mother and 65% (was previously near 100%) of my salary goes on childcare, we get by but holidays etc are out of the question. We’re not rich and have small children, it’s just how it is. I don’t resent what we pay and feel quite lucky that we’re a few hundred better off than if I was doing the equally important job of caring for my children full time.
Maybe because when I had my first child there was absolutely no childcare help and scant provision but I really don’t understand so many people these days complaining about childcare costs, especially when it still leaves them better off working? Totally understand single parents needing help and thankfully they have had generous help for years but why are couples who are definitely not on the breadline complaining? Did they seriously think they could have children without making any sacrifices and why do they expect people often worse off them themselves to pay for maintaining their previous lifestyle?

@MintJulia

I think quite a large proportion of new parents don't realise just how expensive childcare can be. Ds is a teen now but as a lone mum in 2010, I paid £750 a month. I earned a good salary but it was still fairly tight for the first year.

I can sympathise with that, that it comes as a bit of a shock along with all the other aspects of parenthood that come as a shock. I do genuinely sympathise, it’s just the ones that feel so indignant about it and expect everyone else to be funding it for them (for single parents and low income there are more than enough good reasons why we absolutely should)

People complain because it’s a large chunk of their income going on something that when a child gets to school age is for the large part free free unless you choose to educate privately.
It seems to be generally accepted that attending nursery gives a child a good start in life and this being so it surely adds weight to the argument that nursery places should be free, or at least very heavily subsidised so everyone can afford to access them if they want to. How the country could fund this I have no idea!
That said, when you consider what tradesmen, solicitors etc charge per hour for their services current nursery fees are a bargain

I find your post entirely coherent.

So tired of people moaning about paying £10 p/h for their child/children to be fed, safe, entertained for a very long day at nursery or a childminders.

There’s a complete lack of thought of looking at it this way.

There is help for those who need it, rightly so.

So sad that people complain about their childcare being another ‘expensive bill’. Your children are priority and it will be tight for most before they go to school.

If you ‘pay to work’ it’s not for a prolonged time and we certainly benefit in the long run from no career breaks. It has to be looked at in the long run.

Government is to blame for high cost of living and need to step in to help any struggling parents trying to keep the economy going by working and the cost of childcare/taxes/bills.

@millymae

You are right, Childcare is actually a bargain per hourly rate and many complaining about the cost of it would absolutely not work for that hourly rate.

It seems like a large amount because of the long hours nurseries/nannies/childminders do accrue to an amount each month. But really it’s a hard slog for them.

Au pairs have been a lifeline for us at times, but it’s the luck of the draw to find someone amazing.

@millymae

People complain because it’s a large chunk of their income going on something that when a child gets to school age is for the large part free free unless you choose to educate privately. It seems to be generally accepted that attending nursery gives a child a good start in life and this being so it surely adds weight to the argument that nursery places should be free, or at least very heavily subsidised so everyone can afford to access them if they want to. How the country could fund this I have no idea! That said, when you consider what tradesmen, solicitors etc charge per hour for their services current nursery fees are a bargain

All children are entitled to 15 funded hours of preschool education from age 3, where is the evidence that nursery care below this age is beneficial better off children in society??

[quote Tillsforthrills]@millymae

You are right, Childcare is actually a bargain per hourly rate and many complaining about the cost of it would absolutely not work for that hourly rate.

It seems like a large amount because of the long hours nurseries/nannies/childminders do accrue to an amount each month. But really it’s a hard slog for them.

Au pairs have been a lifeline for us at times, but it’s the luck of the draw to find someone amazing.[/quote]
Yes absolutely, they often do a fantastic job for very low wages. As you say it can be so difficult to find good childcare and that fits into hours working. There’s lots of thing that have and can be done to make things that bit easier e.g. the registered home childcarer scheme was great as enabled people who needed to claim help through tax credits to also claim if needed to use a nanny as worked shifts etc, there were also schemes in some areas to help people train as childminders etc

Thank you for understanding, it was not a post at all to hit at struggling families at all. Was just genuinely quizzical as to why people in similar circumstances to us felt so indignant about paying people to care for their young children. It just really mystified me as we just kind of assumed as parents that care 0-3 and then wraparound care is something we have to pretty much cover cost of or do ourselves unless we fall on hard times, for which thankfully there is generally a safety net for. Just like it’s generally my job to buy my own loaf of bread but decent society would give me that loaf if I couldn’t afford it

Above @Tillsforthrills

I’ve been a single parent during times when they received a lot less support than now

I think you're basing that purely on the amounts paid in benefits and without an understanding that while the amounts may SEEM higher in terms of as a percentage of living costs they are lower!

They're also harder to claim now and are often interrupted by sanctions etc which leads to people getting into debt etc

so don’t think I need educating about such matters

Wow!

The arrogance is quite something isn't it @sweetbellyhigh ?

And we’re you actually a single parent 25 years ago?? I don’t mean one that was left a house in a divorce settlement or on a professional salary but one starting from absolutely nothing?

Almost 20 years ago, no house, no professional salary was a sahm immediately after split (because I'd been working as a childminder but as I had to leave the marital home because ex was army and went into social housing that meant I couldn't continue with that) I was VERY lucky to fairly quickly find a full time job albeit a nmw one and good quality - but not cheap childcare!

This isn’t the children it really affects though

Of course it affects children! Why on earth would you think it doesn't?!

The quality and availability of childcare, the costs mean less spare money at home it definitely affects children!

Naw. I think it's just that you're goady.

Yep

Maybe it’s a class or culture thing or where we lived but most mothers didn’t work when I was growing up in the 80s

Be interested to know exactly where you were living and mixing with at this point.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's and most mums worked at least part time. Wc background and with dad being army we lived in a variety of places within the uk. Mixed with military and civilian families.

Again, an ignorant post. Early years care is education (ECE) and again, progressive societies recognise the child's first 1000 days as make it or break it time.

Totally agree

yet another version of the "But I work hard" trope.

Yep

To whit

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Because it can make work pointless, force women into part-time roles which are low paid and under-utilise their skills. It puts people off having children which impacts the economy now and in the long term. Childcare for more than one is impossible even working full time and I'm a high earner. Lack of affordable childcare limits opportunities for women and forces them into poverty, impacting them especially in retirement.

@Graphista

I’ve been a single parent during times when they received a lot less support than now

I think you're basing that purely on the amounts paid in benefits and without an understanding that while the amounts may SEEM higher in terms of as a percentage of living costs they are lower!

They're also harder to claim now and are often interrupted by sanctions etc which leads to people getting into debt etc

so don’t think I need educating about such matters

Wow!

The arrogance is quite something isn't it @sweetbellyhigh ?

And we’re you actually a single parent 25 years ago?? I don’t mean one that was left a house in a divorce settlement or on a professional salary but one starting from absolutely nothing?

Almost 20 years ago, no house, no professional salary was a sahm immediately after split (because I'd been working as a childminder but as I had to leave the marital home because ex was army and went into social housing that meant I couldn't continue with that) I was VERY lucky to fairly quickly find a full time job albeit a nmw one and good quality - but not cheap childcare!

This isn’t the children it really affects though

Of course it affects children! Why on earth would you think it doesn't?!

The quality and availability of childcare, the costs mean less spare money at home it definitely affects children!

Naw. I think it's just that you're goady.

Yep

Maybe it’s a class or culture thing or where we lived but most mothers didn’t work when I was growing up in the 80s

Be interested to know exactly where you were living and mixing with at this point.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's and most mums worked at least part time. Wc background and with dad being army we lived in a variety of places within the uk. Mixed with military and civilian families.

Again, an ignorant post. Early years care is education (ECE) and again, progressive societies recognise the child's first 1000 days as make it or break it time.

Totally agree

yet another version of the "But I work hard" trope.

Yep

To whit

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

I’ve already pointed out that pre 2001 was very different to post 2001 and

@Newmum738

Because it can make work pointless, force women into part-time roles which are low paid and under-utilise their skills. It puts people off having children which impacts the economy now and in the long term. Childcare for more than one is impossible even working full time and I'm a high earner. Lack of affordable childcare limits opportunities for women and forces them into poverty, impacting them especially in retirement.

To an extent yes .. that’s exactly why we have the safety net we do in our society. Don’t really see his spending billions ok funding childcare for families who can afford it but just resent paying for someone to care for their children would be an efficient use of such billion. If a family decide they don’t think it’s worth it for one parent to continue their career then it would cost a lot less to support them back into the workplace when it does become worth it for them and they would of hopefully enjoyed a few years at home with their baby into the bargain!

I’ve already pointed out that pre 2001 was very different to post 2001

In your opinion - we are allowed to disagree with you

@Graphista

I’ve already pointed out that pre 2001 was very different to post 2001

In your opinion - we are allowed to disagree with you

So were you a single mother before 2001?? Before tax credits which significantly increased the amount you received per child overnight, suddenly paid you childcare costs where not a penny was given before. For me the introduction of tax credits was completely life changing, don’t think you have any idea of life before that. I’d already acknowledged uc not as good a system and the admin for it seriously needs sorting out, I do happen to know people on it now. However it is still far more generous than the pre 2001 system

But we will lose the tax income of those woman anyway if they stop working, why not just use that money to keep woman in work for those most expensive early years? And it is predominantly woman who are the lower paid earner in their family.

We have the most expensive childcare in Europe. This is not because childcare providers earn vastly more than contemporaries on the other side of the channel, but because we have decided oddly that childcare shouldn't be part of our welfare provision for everyone. Theres no reason not to give everyone subsidised childcare for those short expensive years. If it keeps more woman in work it will pay for itself in the long term.

@MargosKaftan

But we will lose the tax income of those woman anyway if they stop working, why not just use that money to keep woman in work for those most expensive early years? And it is predominantly woman who are the lower paid earner in their family.

We have the most expensive childcare in Europe. This is not because childcare providers earn vastly more than contemporaries on the other side of the channel, but because we have decided oddly that childcare shouldn't be part of our welfare provision for everyone. Theres no reason not to give everyone subsidised childcare for those short expensive years. If it keeps more woman in work it will pay for itself in the long term.

If you look at the evidence the extra tax generated doesn’t come anywhere near covering the cost of the childcare, the average working mother doesn’t pay anywhere near 13k in tax each year

@Graphista

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Credit

This was the reality and don’t start claiming the bare essentials were 100 times cheaper in the 90s, they weren’t!! The max rate received for a child under 11 was £12.05 a week, you can imagine I felt like a millionaire when I was then receiving £50-60 per child not long after, plus childcare costs! It made an absolutely enormous difference

@Newmum738

What would you deem an acceptable amount to pay to someone looking after your child all day? This is a genuine question and id really appreciate your answer. £5 an hour? £4 an hour? £3

What would be an acceptable amount to pay already lowly paid women childcarers so that you’re not pushed, god forbid, into the same low paid roles as them?

@Teawithsugar40 £13k income tax per year is paid on a £60k salary. So a very good wage but hardly astronomical. Many working mothers, myself included, will pay that or more.

Oh - and being at work is better for my career, meaning better promotion prospects, meaning even more tax paid.

The answer is definitely not to pay childcare workers less. They’re paid so badly already. Like so many actually key workers in this country.

[quote RandomCatGenerator]@Teawithsugar40 £13k income tax per year is paid on a £60k salary. So a very good wage but hardly astronomical. Many working mothers, myself included, will pay that or more.[/quote]
Considering the average salary in the UK is 25k for both men and women and that most women with children below school age do not work full time then you might be surprised to learn you earn significantly more than the vast majority of working mothers!!

[quote RandomCatGenerator]@Teawithsugar40 £13k income tax per year is paid on a £60k salary. So a very good wage but hardly astronomical. Many working mothers, myself included, will pay that or more.[/quote]
I pay about £4,500 tax and NI on about a £25,000 salary, so just under one-fifth of my total income.

@Tillsforthrills completely. I think it's a bigger issue than that. Society needs children and people are choosing not to have them because of the cost. The impact of care affects women in particular in an adverse way. In Wales, the Government are heavily subsidising care and it's still expensive because it's private sector and therefore profit-making.

Isn't it potential future earnings by staying in work, though, rather than the earnings that year?

@RandomCatGenerator

In fact I’ve just looked it up and only 1 in 15 women who work full time earn over 50k, not even the 60k income needed to make up for the cost of childcare just for one child. Most mothers with dependant children don’t even work full time so you are actually in a tiny percentage of working mothers. Not to mention that just because you’d be quite happy effectively paying zero tax on 60k, another woman wouldn’t have been quite happy having the privilege of a 60k a year job and been quite happy to contribute 13k for the NHS, supporting the poor and range of other things taxes go on. 60k a year jobs are clearly not 10 a penny so your not doing anyone but yourself a favour by filling it