Aupair employers - when does the weekend start for yours? and other questions...

[laura032004]

I'm struggling a bit with this. Our ap is great, and does whatever I ask, but I'm loathe to ask for some things for fear of seeming unreasonable. If you lot can tell me it's standard practise, I'll feel a lot more confident

We're working on a 25hrs per week contract. So 5 hours per day Monday - Friday. I would say I ask her to do nowhere near that amount of hours 'work'. However, I'm more or less happy with that, as she does lend a hand at other times too. I had envisaged her working 9-11 then 4.30-7.30, but it isn't really working out that way. She has language classes two mornings a week so leaves the house at 8am on those days. She doesn't get back until 1pm at the earliest, and I've said she's free to go to the gym afterwards, so I can't really expect her back much before 3pm. She also has a class on evening per week, so leaves at 5pm latest for that, but again, I've said tag going to the gym onto the class, so she'll probably leave at 3pmish. So basically I'm losing her for 3 of my 'sessions' per week. Also, the last two weeks, she has gone out on a Friday evening (I've said that's fine btw, as I didn't know what else to say), but that means I lose another sessions help. So out of 10, I'm actually getting 6.

I'm a SAHM, so I only really ask her to tidy the kitchen twice a day, hoover and tidy downstairs twice a day, and then another task of about half an hour once a day (clean bathroom, change DS's sheets, hoover upstairs, iron 5 shirts, mop kitchen floor). That's not too strenous is it? But I can't leave the kitchen on the times she's not around, so I'm doing that myself. Same with tidying and hoovering.

So what do I do? Can I say she can't go out on a Friday until 7.30pm? (I'd be happy to negotiate to say 7pm) What about the other days? Would you ask her to tidy the kitchen before she goes out in a morning? There's not really much to do, but it just grates a bit when I end up doing it.

Feel free to say if I'm being unreasonable? She's also contracted for 2 nights per week babysitting, but we're unlikely to use more than one night per month.

Hi laura, this is a minefield but at first sight it looks to me as if you're asking a bit too much on the cleaning front. Hoovering, mopping kitchen floor, cleaning bathrooms are jobs for a cleaner not an au pair - they go beyond light housework I think. We're in W London and light housework might be making beds or tidying dishes but not much more. Perhaps this is why she's so keen to get away all the time.

I write having had aupairs myself but always had a cleaner too. So the ap was in charge of the 3 children and there was no overlap problem. Good luck anyway, it's really hard trying not to upset them but not wanting to be walked all over either.

Hi Laura, I also have a cleaner and an ap, and my ap is primarily to help me with childcare - school runs/evening routine etc.
I would suggest writing a timetable for her of what you expect her to do each day, and when. (although you might say that she can do, say, the ironing whenever she wants). I think the more you spell out what you need the better.

I also like the house tidy in the morning, but my ap has been here since June and still I come back to find crap all over the floor and breakfast things out and she has gone off to college. It annoys the hell out of me. I think the issue is, don't assume that she will realise what you want - you have to write it down.

Did she know when she started what the job entails?

Did you understand that I meant that she does one of those each day? So one day she hoovers upstairs, one day she cleans the bathroom etc?

I would say they are only light housework myself - she doesn't 'scrub' the bathroom, just wipes it down. Same with mopping - just a quick swish round with a vileda supermop, not down on hands and knees getting in all corners like I do. I do all the toilets, and properly do the floors, bathrooms etc once a week. DH is away, so there is just me, the ap and two DS's (1&3) in the house. I would say since she's been here, that the house is never dirty or particularly untidy, as she's great at doing everything. My only gripe is that 4 times a week, it's not being done, and is this normal?

I don't really expect any 'childcare' just a helping hand. I only leave her alone with DS2 for 5 minutes whilst I nip DS1 to nursery or back. DS2 is normally asleep if I do this. If he's awake, I take him.

Pollyanna - x-posts

Yes, she understands what the job entails, it's just I don't know how to approach asking her to do things as well as going out.

I initially said I was flexible about what was done when, but maybe I've been too flexible. Timetable might be in order I suppose, although I didn't want to seem so rigid. I suppose if I show her an ideal scenario timetable, then she'll try and keep as close to it as possible. I just feel petty saying that I'd like her to do things before she goes out, but then that's what I'm paying her for!

I get the feeling that she knows she's not doing all that much (she's a really nice girl, I've been very lucky), but what can I do if she wants to go out, and is asking me if there is anything she can do, but there isn't anything, because the mess is created later, so I need the help later. Can I say she can't go out until then?

Well is there anything you could get her to do in advance? Or say "yes you can go out, but I expect you to do it when you come back".

Or trade tidying kitchen after meal for food prep (Washing/chopping veg) before one?

I'd say you're not unreasonble to expect her to work til 7.30, and maybe say that as she's off to language classes 3 times a week when you'd ideally like her help you'd appreciate a thorough tidy up on Sunday evening in exchange?

our girl used to knock off at 7-ish, and it was clear that the place needed to be in order before she finished.

a timetable is definitely the answer. you can always adjust it.

Hi Laura, agree that a timetable is the way to go. Mine is written up in advance and it is a basis for negotiation once aupair starts to deviate for lessons, nights out etc.

It seems that your aupair has fixed times where she has to be out of the house and not doing duties (as you said, 6 out of 10). I would then discuss with her how she can make up for these times on other occasions on a permanent basis eg babysitting, tidying on a weekend, more ironing. This is a formal change of the timetable, staying till 7-ish on a Friday night. That way, if she is not particularly happy with the change, she can see if she can re-arrange her lessons or classes for a timing that is more in accordance with the original arrangement.

I think the amount of cleaning is fine. My ap is great with cleaning and does all you described.

I think for you, because you are a SAHM, you require more cleaning of your aupair than usual. Same in my case. Although I work, my ds goes to ft nursery and dd is at school, so the childcare side is light. I make it up with cleaning duties.

I su

I was wondering if I could say something like the Sunday swap Frannikin. It doesn't really matter much for now, as we're away next w/e, then she goes home for Xmas the following Friday. However, I really like her, so I don't want these niggles to get in the way of a good relationship.

She did offer to get up with the kids on Sunday morning, which to be honest, I'd swap quite a few nights kitchen tidying for The only thing is that she doesn't currently get up before 8.30am, and since our two wake at approx 5am, she doesn't really know our morning routine.

ignore that bit at the bottom ...

I "exchange" things if the hours on a particualr day don't suit my ideal - I like felxibility on both sides. So She knows that Monday - she hoovers, Tuesday- bathroom, Wednesday - highchair, Thursday - bins, Friday - hoover & mop: these are set but she can do them when she wants. On top of that laundry is her responsibility and I expect her to fit that in around when she is in/out. But say one day she help with DS on an outing because of college so we will be out during her "work" hours then I will ask her to prepare veg for dinner, or make some baby food - whatever needs doing. Normally these jobs are less than half an hour but will help me out no end at the end of the day. So on the four sessions where she's not available for her "set" hours set her others tasks but let her work out when she will do them?

Getting her up at 5 am on a Sunday is a bit rough! You are up at 5 am? Respect.

Perhaps she can wake up at a more reasonable time. You soldier on from 5 am and then go back to bed at, say, 8:30 am.

I'd be very wary taking time from the weekend - they really should be allowed that time off I think. Can you not set her tasks during the weekday to compensate for those 4 sessions? Also maybe she should be going to the gym then, not when you need her?

Thanks blueshoes. Glad to know that I'm not being completely unreasonable about levels of cleaning The kitchen literally takes her about quarter of an hour (20 mins with mopping), but as DS2 is such a needy baby, it would take me probably an hour or more, and that really gets me down. Also, I work from home in the evenings once the kids are in bed, so I don't want to be doing things then really.

Well it's down to your definition of weekend really when you're dealing with live-in help. When I was a live-in nanny I was free to leave when the parents got home Friday night, but had to be back before 10pm on Sunday evening - my weekend was Friday night-Sunday evening. So yeah, I think that a Sunday evening tidy-up is fine.

I wouldn't take her up on the Sunday morning offer though! Especially if your DCs are up at 5am.

The thing is Weegle, I don't need her when she's at the gym, it's when she's actually at the classes. The gym just extends that a bit.

BS - I would never ask her to get up at 5am. Without paying extra anyway! I don't mind at all that she doesn't get up until 8.30am (earliest - poss even 9 or 10), as DS2 cries a lot in the night, and I know it's disturbing her sleep.

What I meant by not knowing our routine, is that by the time she's up, the kids are up, changed, fed and dressed. So she couldn't do any of that even if she was willing to get up earlier, because she doesn't know how. However, going back to bed is an attractive option.

So what are you actually NEEDING her to do when she's at the classes? I'm confused! What is done then that can't be done at a different point in the day?

Well, the main thing that is time specific is sorting out the kitchen after breakfast and evening meal, and hoovering round after breakfast and evening meal. If they're not done straight away, I can't leave them, so I do them. If she's at a class until 1pm (earliest poss time home), I can't leave everything lying around until then. Same with the evening stuff. If she went out at 5pm, we wouldn't have had dinner yet, so no mess created. By 6pm, we've finished, so kitchen needs tidying, and everywhere needs a quick hoover. But she doesn't get back until 9pm. I can't leave it all that long, and I'm not sure she'd want to start it at 9pm either.

crikey - you hoover twice a day?! I feel like a right slob now - we hoover twice a week!

She obviously can't do those things when you need her to, so I think you're going to have to accept that you're going to have to do them. With the exception perhaps of Friday when I think it would be fair to say she can't go out until 7pm. To make you feel better I think you need to think of some things that she can do and ask her to extend hours on other "sessions" so that you feel satisfied. Could she do some batch cooking to make evening meals easier for you? Could she make and change beds? Try and think of some of the things that you currently do which aren't time specific and see if you can delegate her those. You could use the Sunday evening tidy-up suggestion as a bargain tool for other things ie. you suggest to her your ideal but tell her where her choice is, that way she won't feel demoralised that you're suddenly heaping extra responsibilities on her. She sounds like she's eager to please normally so hopefully this will stand you in good stead.

It's hard when their classes eat so much in to the day. I actually need my AP more over the middle of the day but her classes are Mon/Wed/Fri meaning she's out from 11.30-3.30 on those days. It annoyed me to begin with but then we worked round it and I set her other things for times she CAN do. Mostly what I give her to do are dinner prep/baby food/batch cooking/beds/ad hoc cleaning/shopping/taking DS to give me a break.

I would definitely advocate making the changes sooner rather than later because the longer it's left the longer she'll feel "well that's not my job, and it was ok till now" and you don't want any bad feeling.

Good luck

I only hoover twice a day out of necessity! DS2 likes to throw food all over the place.

Well, off her own back she offered to help out this afternoon, but we don't really need that as DH is around today, so asked her if she could help me out tomorow evening instead when DH has gone back.

I think all will be fine - at least she's aware that she is getting off lightly at the moment. Completely agree about needing to make changes sooner rather than later, so will have a good think about extra jobs. I haven't asked her to do any meal prep yet, or any cooking, so might have to delegate some of that as well.

Thanks everyone

Laura, wouldnt you be better off having a weekly cleaner rather than an au pair if she is really just tidying up and spending a week on doing what a cleaner would do in say, 3 hours?

With an au pair in the house you have the niggles, the extra food she eats, and to be honest, it doesnt seem like you are really utilizing her to her full potential?

What do you mean when you say she cant help you get the kids up in the morning?

I bet she is quite disillusioned if she came her to take care of children (like au pairs do) and instead is a domestic cleaner instead.

And frankly, it doesnt seem like you need her for the hours you have specified, it is not like you have children she needs to get ready for school/nursery. You are the boss, you set the hours, so I find it odd that you have set down a routine that A) does not really benefit you and B) clashes with her schedule which somehow seem to take priority.

I have had a written timetable for all my aupairs, it is on the notice board in the kitchen, along with emergency phone numbers. It shows when to get up, what to do in the morning, what child to take where, etc. Her time off is marked, it is up to her how she fills this time, courses, the gym. In any event, she knows when to come back, she knows what is expected of her, and she is off 7.30. If she has no plans, she keeps helping tidying up, and sometimes, she asks if she can leave earlier (to baby sit with other family, which is fine) and then she makes sure she does as much as possible prior to going.

One of the main things is that my au pairs have all become totally smitten with my children, this is what makes them happy in their "work", the rapport they get, the joy they get from making baby/toddler smile and come running to hug them. It is an emotional bond. The only way for this to happen, and for your aupair to "attach" herself to you and your family is through letting her care for your kids a little, I think.

The problem is that I have no problem keeping on top of 'weekly' cleaning jobs. I struggle day to day when DH is away during the week. So actually, it's working quite well. It's not too much of a problem having her in the house - she's really nice, and as it's mainly just me and the DS's, it doesn't impact on us as much as it would if DH was around f/t.

She does seem to really like the kids - and they really like her. DS2, who is sometimes quite reserved, will run to her for a cuddle after less than two weeks. And DS1 gets upset when she goes out without him!

I do let her care for them where possible, but I don't really need much of that, as I'm usually around. I don't want to go out just so she can be with them! I'm sure that when the better weather comes, it will get easier, as we have a good culture of kids playing out in the street, so she'll be able to be out there with them whilst they do that. Luckily she's made good friends with a neighbours ap, so they'll be happy to be out there together.

She definitely knew the score before she came, and she's not unhappy with the level of work at all. In fact, I'd say she feels guilty that she's not doing more. But I'm happy about that, just to have the option to take more if and when I need it. For example, if I was really ill, DH couldn't just come home, so I feel I could call on her then. Her classes and gym are flexible, so I could ask her to cancel them if really neccesary.

That sounds a bit better Laura. As long as you both know that she has an easy time now, but that may change when need be.

My husband travels a lot, and is away for months at the time. I would be lost without another person in the house, "just in case" you know. And he is so far away (India) it would not be possible for him to come home quickly, it would take at least 24-36 hours!

We're in the same boat then or should it be DH is in the Navy, so when he's away on a course, like he is for the next 5 months, he can't come home at all mid-week. And then he'll be on a submarine for the next 2 and a half years, so away for months at a time, with no potential to come home, or even be contacted if needs be

With no family nearby, it's not an enviable position. I have no idea how single parents with no support cope. Luckily I'm sure that people in my street would help out if I was in dire need, as we'll all be in the same position from time to time.

oh that is tough. At least mine is reachable over the phone, and it is only around 3-4 times a year he is away. The longest he has ever been away for his 3 months, after we had the kids (mine are 5 1/2 and 2 1/2 now). Just such a thing as having to take one of them to hospital, is a headache if you are on your own. We dont have any family nearby to call on either, as I am from Norway and my husband is from Poland!

I think single parenthood is hard, but also because they are single, they can "move" on and create a big support network around themselves of friends and family, and as married women we hesitate to do that because, there is a partner just not here. Does that make sense?