Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

[ChloeR81]

Hi, hope I’m not duplicating a thread but I couldn’t find one.

I have a lovely nanny who comes 2 days a week. Where do we stand regarding isolation etc? Can she refuse to come to work when we’re all well? At what point would she be able to not come to work, e.g. what level of official lockdown etc.

Want to be totally fair to her and follow the rules, but equally if I don’t have childcare I can’t work and earn money to pay her. Thanks, it’s so difficult to navigate

The Government have now clarified that individual employers receiving furlough payments will not be taxed on them. Not surprising as it makes logical sense but always good to have confirmation!

It does apply to nanny employers but only IF there is no need for the nanny/no work/as an alternative to redundancy. If that’s not so, then the scheme does not apply. Its not there to pay people who can legally work, have work there to do, but would rather not work (for perfectly valid personal reasons) and still want to be paid.

This is not fact but my opinion, I don't think they would deny nanny employers the furlough money for following the 2 metre rules. Yes- we can still work and only have to follow the 2 metre rule where possible. But I just can't see them penalizing nanny employers who choose to follow that rule. It would be wrong.

4 leading employment barristers have clubbed together to provide a written opinion on the furlough scheme (this virtually never happens - they all work for different chambers and would never normally collaborate in this way). Interestingly @strictlymummy2019 they take the view that to be eligible for the job retention policy there is NO requirement that the parents no longer need a nanny/that s/he would otherwise have been made redundant. See 3.3 on p7
www.dropbox.com/s/c7fn0yft86cw2j0/4%20Silks%20CJRS%20Collaborative%20View.pdf?dl=0

If you read the small print in section 3.3, their long response says that more guidance is required, see also section 8 and the disclaimer at the bottom. No help whatsoever unfortunately other than confirming the need for additional clarity.

Interestingly @Alwaysinahurrynow, David Reade QC of Littleton goes much further and says "Paragraph 6.1 of the Direction defines a “furloughed employee”. An employee qualifies if furlough occurs “by reason of circumstances arising as a result of coronavirus or coronavirus disease.” Although the Guidance progressively moved away from a need for an underlying redundancy situation, or threatened redundancy, Indeed, the definition is now so broad as to encompass, for example, the employee who refuses to attend work the Direction now puts the matter beyond doubt.due to fears over their health and safety. If the employer elects to furlough the employee, it would seem they would be eligible to claim the employee’s wage costs recoverable under the Scheme".

It's obviously still just one lawyer's opinion, and the rules may again evolve but it's rare for barristers to be quite so unequivocal. login.cmadvantage.co.uk/mvcs1/ImageGallery/LITTLETON%20CHAMBERS/The%20Treasury%20Direction%202.2.pdf

Thanks everyone, really interesting. We do need clarification; until then nanny employers are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

We are really struggling to manage without our nanny and yet we’re being expected to do our own jobs and the nanny’s and keep paying her and apparently not be reimbursed.

I think without further clarity on furlough, nanny employers will start asking their nannies to return to work, with all the ensuing tension and potential bad-feeing given the amount of misinformation out there about whether nannies can work or not.

There’s presently only another 6 weeks or so that furlough is likely to apply anyway. After that @Childcarehelp the difficult conversations and bad feelings Inevitably ensue. For those not taking a risk on furlough those conversations are happening now. I can see both sides of the debate on that but at the end of the day, how many individuals can struggle on trying to do their job and nanny’s job whilst paying for the privilege while nanny sits at home? It’s going to be a case of coming to some agreement or P45. Sad And stressful on both sides.

@childcarehelp if it makes you feel any better. I haven’t furlough my nanny and won’t do. None of us in a high risk category Mx we do pick her up each day so big in public transport and we don’t mix households.

If she wants to not work then of course then can but we will be replacing. Will find it really sad but ultimately I need a nanny.

We will have given our nanny six weeks off but in May we have asked her to come back and she has agreed. I have asked her if she feels uncomfortable and she said she is ok about it. We haven’t formally furloughed because she isn’t redundant (she is very much needed). We will all still be careful. She isn’t in a high risk category and doesn’t take public transport to get to us. I think lockdown restrictions will start to relax anyway in May.

Has everyone seen the 15th April updates? Apparently nanny does not need to be “redundant” to be furloughed. It seems anyone can be furloughed even if they just don’t fancy working due to Corona, no other reason required it seems. Whilst I find this absolutely astounding, it may be welcomed by those worrying about whether theirs was a furlough/redundancy scenario and asking if they fell under the scheme. Seem too good to be true?

Sorry, covered above! What’s people’s views on this? Anyone now decided to risk furlough who was before not going to?

I’m happy with all the clarifications (we won’t have to pay tax on the grant and despite the role not being redundant we can claim) as had decided to risk it and furlough our nanny. We would have taken the hit if we couldn’t claim.

But, if we employ a temporary nanny we will stop furlough.
Wish my employer would furlough me!! Looks like they could under ‘child care’ needs.
If I ask, that’s probably the nail in the coffin for my career there though!

pidgy sorry it won't let me tag you.
Does your nanny only work for you?
I've continued to work for at least one family (I'm leaving it up to the families) and another will restart up this week. I think now that lockdown has been for 4 weeks, hopefully your nanny may feel the risks are minimal now? As you've all been pretty much inside for a while.

Looks like they took the tax part off the website. I hope that’s not a sign they’ve changed their minds

We did furlough but nanny now returning to work as it’s been really hard for us and quite unhealthy for kids (beefing to use tv as childcare etc). The risks are very minimal, especially now after a few weeks of strict lockdown which our family and hers have been following. She only works for us and will travel back and forth by car.

The tax treatment language is still there, see here: www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme @2kool4skool

Thanks @Childcarehelp that’s great! Phew

*needing not beefing!

Fantastic news that nanny employers have started receiving their furlough money today.