Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

[ChloeR81]

Hi, hope I’m not duplicating a thread but I couldn’t find one.

I have a lovely nanny who comes 2 days a week. Where do we stand regarding isolation etc? Can she refuse to come to work when we’re all well? At what point would she be able to not come to work, e.g. what level of official lockdown etc.

Want to be totally fair to her and follow the rules, but equally if I don’t have childcare I can’t work and earn money to pay her. Thanks, it’s so difficult to navigate

@ilovewinterpantes

The info l posted pertains to childcare workers, lm not sure where the connection is with regards to your work setting.

We need to read all advice and apply logic. The advise is that you can ‘travel to work if you cannot work from home’. ‘Stay 2m apart, where possible.’

There are lots of nannies who are continuing to work. There are lots of nannies who cannot work for good reason. There are also nannies who can probably work but choose not to. It’s at the employers discretion as to what to do, taking everything into consideration. What works for one, may not work for another. Let’s try and be understanding of all sides. Employer bashing does not help as we’re all trying to do the best we can while keeping our own jobs and our own families financially stable.

The gov has closed schools and childcare settings (other than for key workers), where there are children mixing from different families. The gov has (recently) clearly stated that nannies can carry on working; they are not being treated the same as other childcare settings.

Put very well reddotty

Agreed @bringonspring. see no comment from @Wendy555 to my keyworker question. Quick to rush to accusations against employer, silent when its the employee “manipulating the rules”. Both sides have to be grown up and reasonable in my view.

@Wendy555 but nothing in that passage you have quoted says that nannies who provide care for one family, in a family home, cannot work for anyone other than key workers. We all know that schools and nurseries are only open for children of key workers at the moment.

This came from my payroll agency when I specifically asked about whether it was ok for nannies still to work at the moment.

“ We have contacted both Public Health England and the Department of Education for guidance on this matter. Their response was that in a setting that you are caring for or working for people in a household then it is unavoidable that you must come into contact with these people.
In these settings we advise that (as with any workplace that remains open) precautions should be followed such has regular hand washing and avoiding contact to only when it is necessary.

Adult family members should at all times unless absolutely necessary stay two meters away from their Nanny to leave her to complete her vital childcare role.
I hope this guidance helps in this unprecedented time.”

@Wendy555

You are confusing nannies with childcare settings. They are NOT treated In the same way.

You asked what was wrong with your post:

1. You can travel to work where you cannot work from home - nannies cannot wfh so if you apply logic, you can travel to work.
2. work carried out in someone else’s home is allowed. This is totally different to mixing households for social reasons.
3. If working in someone’s home, you are advised to keep a 2m distance where possible. Not that you must, or you can’t work, it is where possible.
4. there is no mention in any official guidance that nannies can only work for key workers. This is a myth created and propagated on the various nanny groups I have seen. It is UNTRUE!
5. if 1 or both parents are working from home this does NOT automatically mean the nanny is redundant. Particularly if there are young children, the role of the nanny is still needed. The clue is in the name.. working from home. This means that quite possibly, the furlough rebate won’t apply to nanny employers when HMRC assess each situation.

I wish nannies would take a step back, think logically about the actual risk, and stop picking and choosing from the (incorrect) information that they want to be true. I’m certain many people would like to get paid for doing nothing, but if the job is still there it shouldn’t be happening.

@Pidgythe2nd I could not have put it better myself.

I really think we all need to be careful about whether or not furlough applies. Whether that's an employer relying on getting the 80% back or a nanny assuming that their employer will take that chance in the first instance.

Nannies should not be going to work if parents are at home. You CAN go to work if you're not a key worker but those who work in people's home should be maintaining a 2m distance and employers should be making provision for this. Nanny employers cannot because of the nature of the job.

Info below taken from Gov.uk website

@StringyPotatoes, you’re wrong I’m afraid.

2m is where possible. See attached also from gov.co.uk and the official letter sent to all UK households.

Where are you getting the info from about not working if parents are at home? I can’t see that referenced anywhere?

Furlough is for if a job is redundant. We still need our nanny as cannot work with 3 children around.

Has anyone on here decided not to furlough? If so, what are you planning with nanny?

Sorry @stringypotatoes but your screenshots don’t prove what you’re saying.

Yes nannies can be furloughed - it does not mean that all nannies SHOULD be furloughed.

You may travel to work IF you cannot work from home.

Do you think people who still go to work in an office, grocery store, warehouse etc maintain a 2m distance at all times? My guess is that they cannot. It’s just not always possible. That’s why the advise is clear, maintain a 2m distance where possible.

Also, where does it say that nannies should not work if both parents are at home? I’ve not seen that at all.

Honestly, not trying to be difficult here. I can see both sides. I can see why nannies would not want to go to work but that’s a discussion with your employer. It’s also the employers decision as to whether they pay you or not or whether they furlough you. I think that’s the bottom line.

If the nanny position isn't redundant I don't believe it would be eligible for the furlough scheme. See the advice from one law firm below.

And this from Nanny PAYE website

@Silverfix: we have decided not to furlough as we need childcare support to wfh.
We have given our nanny paid leave (in total it will amount to 5 weeks).

She expects to be furloughed indefinitely although she knows it is a real struggle for us - and I don’t think she expected we would easily find a replacement.

We have now found 2 potential replacements so we will have to lay her off (and the weeks of paid leave will count towards her notice period).
Even if she changes her mind about returning to work once she understands there is no more free money on offer, I am not sure I trust her. I know the coming months will be full of ups and downs and potential second waves. She is great at her job but I need someone who will not take every opportunity to stop coming in.
Many families I know have had good conversations with their nannies about how to minimise risk and make the commute and the workplace safe vs blanket refusal to work.

This thread seems to have brought out the worse in people , both nannies and employers.
The law is clear nannies can work. You can leave the house to go to work if the job can not be done at home.
The parents do not have to be key workers. We need parents to work to support the economy.
I’m a nanny and am happy to go to work. The risk I feel is less than going to the supermarket.
However I have nanny friends who are not happy to work. One has medical conditions that make her vulnerable. Workers can ask to be furloughed for health reasons.
Another nanny is not happy to return as her family have not been observing social distancing rules, the children have been playing with the children from several local families and grandparents have visited.

Employers do have a responsibility to provide a safe working environment.
This has to be reasonable and I don’t personally think the 2m rule is possible in a home situation. But maybe providing gloves and aprons could be possible for dealing with babies/toddlers.
But most of all if you are mixing households, both the nanny and the employers must observe the social distancing rules when exercising and shopping.

@Florencemattell completely agree.

The trust between nanny and employer is really important and if the risk is minimised as much as possible (eg combine supermarket trips/share food to save trips out) and if both households are "closed" (no key worker parent at the front line, strict following of social distancing) with no vulnerable household member, then the increased risk of a nanny continuing to work is very slight in my view.

I agree too @Florencemattell.
When I next speak to my nanny about stopping furlough I will reassure her that we have been fully compliant with social distancing. We’ve gone to the shop for milk but it was empty (except for shop worker who was behind a screen) and everything else has been delivered.

Our nanny is not high risk, and she hasn’t mentioned her partner is either, so the risk of her coming into the house and vice versa seems low.
We have plenty of hand wash or soap. No gloves but I actually understood gloves were no use unless you change them regularly or wash them.... main use is in hospitals to stop a health worker inadvertently spreading it to a patient.
It is frustrating to hear other families have been socialising, as I think it makes all nannies concerned.

Yes I agree with the posts above. We don’t socially mix outside our family etc.

I am starting to have a dilemma with food shopping though, I was getting it delivered but saw an article which encouraged on line slots to be for the vulnerable. It increases the risk doing in person/plus you have to go more times but then I am a much lower risk than a 80 year old. The cost of a local shop is so much higher!!

Family in our house I should say

@florencne “workers can asked to be furloughed on health reasons”. Can they? In what circumstances? Wouldn’t that be sick leave?

I haven’t furloughed my nanny as we don’t fulfill the criteria - her job isn’t redundant as I can’t do my full time job from home and look after and homeschool a 6 and 8 year old.

Those screen shots above about tradespeople are not applicable to a nanny scenario.

I’m single but even if I wasn’t and there was a co-parent was also working from home full time, can’t imagine that would make my nanny’s role redundant either.

@littlemiss I’m WFH with husband trying to do the same. Both doing around half our usual hours and struggling! Nanny desperately needed (hasn’t been on for weeks) and definitely NOT redundant!

@Littlemissweepy
Furlough can apply to someone in the shielding group, or some one they live with. Not if they are off because they are sick.
It’s in the government advice:
www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

@Florencemattell thank you, yes that makes sense