Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

[ChloeR81]

Hi, hope I’m not duplicating a thread but I couldn’t find one.

I have a lovely nanny who comes 2 days a week. Where do we stand regarding isolation etc? Can she refuse to come to work when we’re all well? At what point would she be able to not come to work, e.g. what level of official lockdown etc.

Want to be totally fair to her and follow the rules, but equally if I don’t have childcare I can’t work and earn money to pay her. Thanks, it’s so difficult to navigate

Hugglespuffed
Absolutely agree, nice for someone to talk sense.

go corona, corona go!

Not posted on this thread before but was really helpful reading.

I am in the situation where I am a single mum working full time and can work from home at the moment. DCs go to their dad’s for a day at the weekends, based on it still being within gov guidance to spend time in household of NRP. My nanny has been working as normal in my home (well not as normal, due to school closures different hours etc).

We agreed at beginning of “lockdown” that she was able to still come to work and not break guidelines as her job couldn’t be done from home. We had a wobble at the beginning over whether it was only key workers who should work if they can’t work from home, but clarified that it wasn’t just key workers. Also I am not a key worker.

I do still need her in order for me to be able to manage doing my job from home. And would prefer her to work. I can still pay her as I am still earning the same for now. But of course if the government tightened guidance and said nannies shouldn't work I’m sure we’d manage just like many other families are being forced to manage where their childcare options have temporarily gone.

She has got increasingly stressed about coming to work. What seems to be concerning her most is that my DCs spend time with their dad and that introduces a third household into her mix. She lives alone, drives to work and is very diligent with hand washing etc so I don’t worry she is a big risk bringing the virus into my home, but given DCs are between 2 homes and ex-DH isn’t entirely isolated (can’t always work from home) I can see where she is coming from. So I wonder if best for us all if I furlough her. Her stressing is really grinding me down and rubbing off on the children who are getting more anxious around her. Each day I get a different story about which journalist or article or forum post has an opinion that we are breaking the rules. Obvs has me doubting myself.

But my nanny payroll agency have made clear it isn’t a legitimate furlough situation - as I wouldn’t otherwise be making her redundant. I still have a need and a want for her to work and the government rules say she still can.

Has anyone furloughed under similar circumstances?

@littlemiss similar here, which is your payroll co? I have read on Mumsnet that situations such as this are not furlough situations and so you may find any payments clawed back in due course leaving you out of pocket.

I suggest you try calling HMRC for clarity. Personally I would be comfortable furloughing her in the interests of limiting the spread of Covid-19 which is the reason for all the extensive government measures. Asking her to stay at home is in line with the spirit of the lockdown measures even if in your case (and that of many nanny-employer families) she could legally continue to work.

She doesn’t need to be furloughed to agree she can stay home. The qu then though is whether @Littlemissweepy pays her or not surely? And if so, for how long?

Isn't the question whether or not she is temporarily redundant?

If you would need to replace her, she's not temporarily redundant (ie her work hasn't disappeared like eg a waitress' has) and therefore furlough is not an option.

@Bonkers1234 I am with NannyPAYE. Not sure if they have a differing stance to others?

I am reluctant to pay her indefinitely to not come just because it boils down to the fact she doesn’t want to. I am also paying 100% of independent school fees for the same period with schools closed so paying ££££s each month without getting any of the services with no end in sight sticks in my throat somewhat. Especially knowing that the children’s care and my ability to do my job will both be hugely compromised. I run a team of 350 people, I am on almost solid conference calls all day.

So no, she isn’t temporarily redundant.

She’s knows a lot of other nannies and apparently she is the “only one” still being asked to work.

I worry about calling HMRC and marking my card.

Arghhhhh!!!

@littlemiss my understanding is if you need her, it’s not furlough and if you apply for it HMRC may well claw it back years later. You know you also likely to pay tax on the grant too? As well as her? If she doesn’t want to come in, suggest she take unpaid leave?

@sunshine you’re probably right

I'd say in your situation @Sunshine2021 that she should be coming in. You need her. Unless you're able to wangle things so that the children's father has them more at this time.
But if the nanny lives on her own, the risks are minimal. But I can see why she might be nervous if the children's dad is working out of the home..

@hugglespuffed yes that's probably right but I'm not going to ask/force someone to work if they feel uncomfortable doing so. I'm (really) struggling to manage and others may not be able to manage at all in this scenario depending on their line of work so they may have to ask their nanny to continue working (quite rightly). But given we cant use Furlough in that scenario, what's fair in terms of payment?

If you’re not able to apply for furlough and she is the one asking to be kept off, I don’t think she can expect payment in the region of the furlough amount. She would have a right to lay off payment which is hardly anything but if you could afford to pay her something like 20% (which is the top up some nanny employers are giving their furloughed nannies), then I think that would be nice to make things easier for her. I guess if she can’t make ends meet she will have to apply for universal credit until she’s able to work again. There is a state safety net and it shouldn’t be on you as an individual to pay full whack for a service you aren’t getting for circumstances that are not in your control. It’s neither of your fault but you shouldn’t have to carry the full burden on it.

I am in a similar situation to what other parents have described: full time job, working from home, small child requiring constant supervision.

Our nanny has, understandably, not been comfortable coming to work since falling ill 4 weeks ago. She has recovered and is at home still on full pay.

I cannot continue to work effectively in this situation, so will have to take unpaid leave or hire a temp nanny.
If I take leave, I could furlough my nanny but I need to tell my company when I will return or risk losing my job.

Do the nannies staying at home / nanny groups recommending this have a clear view of until when?

Is it just to the end of the initial 3 weeks of lockdown? Our nanny seems to think a lot longer.
Government guidance is that nannies can work, but what would it take for nannies to be comfortable doing so?

With me, it is the parents choice, it will be when lockdown ends I imagine, which will be longer than 3 weeks. However, I don't work for them in the holidays anyway so in order for them to be able to claim the furlough then it needs to be a minimum of 3 weeks anyway, which gives us until the week after the school holidays. I'm hoping the lockdown will just be a further 3 weeks as I'm keen to get back to work properly but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I'm not sure about what others think.. I guess it depends if they / their families chose to stop when the social distancing came in or just the lockdown. With us it was just the lockdown.

In my case, I would like our nanny back as soon as possible - but I also want to be respectful of the fact she does not agree.

I only found out about nannies still able to mix households, so went to see my gd this afternoon.
Sauce for goose is source for the gander.
I don't begrudge nannies working, but they aren't essential to the population, just the individual.
They aren't key workers.

yes I agree!

You’re right, one nanny isn’t ‘essential to the population’ but we’re not just talking about one nanny.
I’d say nannies are essential to keep the economy going.
I can work from home. We’re being told ‘business as usual’, but to prioritise. This is just about manageable in the very short time, but not for months on end.
We’ve furloughed our nanny for 3 weeks as she’s not coming in anyway, but will then reassess. Either she returns, or we find a temp replacement or I take unpaid leave. She’ll be unpaid for the last 2 options.
It’s not fair on my children to be basically left to their own devices so often, when I feel it’s a choice she is making, and a low risk situation.

We are doing the same pidgy, a short time you can get by but not longer.

I agree with that approach. Sadly I don’t think nanny employers as individuals (as opposed to large corporations) are in a position to be paying full pay indefinitely whilst also covering the nanny’s job personally.

Totally agree pidgy and sunshine.

Funnily enough my nanny seems to have mellowed a bit now and seems happy working. I can’t keep up!

@Littlemissweepy funny what the thought of not being paid does to focus the mind! Did you ever call/get through to HMRC on the furlough point?

@sunshine no not yet but I know what their answer would be so not sure I’ll put myself through the pain of an HMRC phone queue.

I’ll keep fingers crossed she’s happy to keep working for now

My employers have decided to furlough me for mine and my families well-being. I really appreciate that. They will struggle but they will survive.

I think anyone making their nanny work through this is selfish and simply risking somebodies life (as well as your own families)