What would you class as 'too ill' to go to childminder

[Jannt86]

Hi all. I am just starting my LO at a chuldminder and mostly they seem lovely. However I've just seen a newsletter that she's put on an online portal complaining that she and her staff are fed up of kids being sent in poorly and that it's spreading illness and even made her think about packing it all in I don't know what has triggered her to say this but it felt a bit unreasonable and has worried me a bit. It's unfair to take children in if they're really poorly, of course it is, but at the end of the day we mostly send our children to childcare because we have no other choice. I'd rather be caring for my child myself but I have to return to work or I'll lose my job. And kids can get ill really quick. Mine can be bouncing off the walls one minute then just slump and get a fever the next. So my question is how ill is too ill? Coz sorry I can't afford to not take her in the minute she has the slightest sniffle. I would personally not take my child in if I REALISED that she was feverish/vomitting/watery diarrhoea or if she was visibly very distressed by symptoms of an illness. Anything else then sorry but we'd be expected as adults to still go to work with a bit of a cough or cold so it should be fine for our child to be out and about too. Otherwise tbh I might as well just jack in my job and look after her FT because my daughter for one pretty much permanently has the snuffles at this time of year. Am I being reasonable or is there something I'm missing? Can somebody please educate me on what good etiquette is in these situations. Thanks

Talk to your childminder about this. They'll be able to explain what this means and will hopefully appreciate you entering a dialogue.

i am happy to accept mild coughs and colds, but when children have thick green snot, temps etc and need calpol together through the day or unable to take part in the day then I exclude. I obviously also exclude for all normal sickness d/v chicken pox etc . Sadly my sickness policy as evolved and become more strict when I have had parents take the mick, e.g. sending kids in knowing they have d/v or expect kid to cope at childcare all day when they themselves have taken day off to spend in bed with the exact same symptoms. If I get sick I have to close and lose money and inconvenience the rest of the families.

You would be surprised by the number of parents who send children who have vomited or had diorhea telling them and siblings not to say anything as mummy/daddy will get into trouble....it always comes out as soon as child is I'll again a lo gives it away....or the amount that suddenly get really high temperatures and go lethargic 4 hours after arrival.

Thanks all. I think I'm perhaps overestimating parent's common sense a bit and that made me overthink her comments a bit. I wouldn't dream of sending my LO to CM if she was feverish or couldn't function without calpol or had vomitting/diarrhoea. I will say though that my kid does go hot and cold when she's ill. One minute she'll seem fine and then she will just flop so possibly with some parents it's possibly just that they didn't realise. Anyway I clarified with my CMs and it was basically as above so I'm more than happy with that xx

Unfortunately some many parents are liars and send their child to care even after them being up vomiting during the night! This directly impacts on our business and income as we have to close if we become ill.

Childminder is not there to step in for parents when kids are ill, the only people that responsibility falls to is the parents.

It's just a pity so many of them are too selfish and entitled to see it.

As a cm as you say Op.

Yes parents explain vomiting with all sorts of excuses for it ... reality they can guess but don’t know.

Bugs spread like wildfire here. They all touch cuddle each other.

I catch it you need to find childcare anyway.

My current parents are like you but had very different in the past

Absolutely no to any sickness, diarrhoea or uncontrollable temperature.

I would happily take a child with a cough/sniffle/cold as long as they could still partake in the activities for the day.

I wouldn't be happy taking a child with something more than a cold. Like a severe virus. Green snot, constantly coughing, fever etc. They need to be at home to rest.

Lol....has not Ill he ate too much, allergic to, ran about after, only sick once so its not a bug, or worse....we've all been sick with d&v but bubba ate too quick that's why he was sick....cant be Ill hes playing, eating.....never been on a children ward then.....no temperature now....no thats the magic of calpol for 4 hours.....heard it all.

Oh and on me finding chicken pox covered with calamine....my eldest(10) got him ready must have put it on didn't tell me there were spots...

There’s no simple answer to this, and each case will be different. Childcare providers have a regulatory duty to protect children from infection; provide education; secure the general welfare of children; maintain food hygiene; and uphold the same health and safety standards as any other business. They don’t have a duty to ensure parents go to work.

There are employment laws to protect parents who need time off for a sick child. Yes, there are some employers who make it difficult, but that is not a childminder's problem. There are a lot of employers who will offer to let staff take time off as paid holiday at short notice, instead of unpaid leave.

Some illnesses are clear-cut and mean automatic exclusion from childcare. D&V, and a list of infections produced by the Health Protection Agency, as well as any time a doctor advises against attending. Already though, we run into difficulties. It is not uncommon for parents to be, ahem, economical with the truth about GPs' diagnoses or advice. Suffice to say, on occasions when I’ve asked parents to have a doctor confirm this sort of thing I need writing, they never do.

There are some 'grey area' illnesses where a judgement call is required. HPA do not require automatic exclusion for conjunctivitis, but it can spread easily in suitable conditions. A child who sucks everything and touches everyone’s faces would definitely have to stay home. But a more hygienic child might possibly be allowed to attend if certain measures were put in place.

Beyond that, the childminder is left to make the decision if parents are wanting them to attend. The childminder has to consider not only the other children's health, but her own; her family's; the poorly child's ability to take part in the normal routine and educational programme; and whether they will be thoroughly miserable without mum.

It’s important to remember childminders are not medically qualified. But if they make a wrong call and other children get ill, they’ll have parents all over social media and complaining to Ofsted. With her reputation and livelihood at stake, it’s little wonder she will err on the side of caution.

As other posts have highlighted, it’s shocking how many mums will knowingly send a sick child to childcare, risking others getting sick and condemning their own child to a miserable time. Then, if the childminder gets ill and has to close, those same mums will be the first to moan.

Quite a lot of parents send their kids in with sickness/diarrhoea or other very contagious things like conjunctivitis and then when we would call them to say their child is too sick they would act surprised and say that they hadn't noticed. I'm sure sometimes they genuinely hadn't noticed, but a lot of the time you can tell that they knew.

It is frustrating, and it means children and staff are constantly going down with avoidable illnesses.

I would have a quiet word with her, she will understand that children are often sick and I'm sure she doesn't mean ANY sickness, but just ask her to clarify. It may be that they have one specific parent who keeps sending in a sick child and they're avoiding calling that person out directly by making a general statement.

Childminders weren't enough for my family's needs, that's why we chose a nursery.

What if the childminder is ill? What if your child is coughing and has green snot bit is capable of joining in with everything?

My child goes to nursery unless she's so ill I'd have to scrape her up and deliver her there in a floppy mess, or she's been puking/had explosive poos - just the same as me going to work.

Parents of children at nursery are frequently losing more working days that those using childminders. This has been highlighted by parents on threads here and similar sites.

With more children at nursery, combined with a rather slack approach to exclusion, any individual child is far more likely to catch an infection than they would at a small setting with tighter controls.

Then there’s the number of times they close because staff can’t get in due to bad weather.

The problem has got worse in recent years. With 50% of nurseries at risk of financial failure, there is a tendency to cut corners on maintenance, leading to more emergency closures for electricity, water, sewerage, etc failures. They are also struggling to afford agency cover for staff sickness. So they either carry on (illegally) above ratio, or put pressure on sick staff to come in (and infect children), or turn families away at the door in order to maintain legal ratios.

In my area it’s become quite common for childminders to be practically swamped with requests for emergency childcare because "my nursery has let me down at the last minute."

I think op raised a good point though, many working parents have limited opportunity to take time off work for themselves being ill never mind their child.
There needs to be an entitlement to time of for caring.
That entitlement must be shared by both parents, else it will reduce women's opportunities in the workspace more. So an employer would have recompense if their employee took 5 child care days and the child father took none.

My child goes to nursery unless she's so ill I'd have to scrape her up and deliver her there in a floppy mess,

I would imagine that is all parents do the same, the children attending nurseries probably catch far more bugs (necessitating more time off) than children who go to childminders though.

There needs to be entitlement to time off for caring.

From the U.K. government website: Time off for family and dependents.....

"If your child falls ill you could take time off to go to the doctor and make care arrangements. Your employer may then ask you to take annual leave or parental leave if you want to look after your child for longer."

"There are no limits on how many times you can take time off for dependents."

My DD would go to CM with a cold or something like tonsillitis/conjunctivitis that's being treated (on agreement with CM).
She wouldn't go with D&V, raging temperature or if she was tired and floppy and couldn't do her normal activities. I know it's really hard when you have employers who are not very understanding but when your DC are properly ill they need to be at home on the sofa having a cuddle with their parents.

What if the childminder is ill? What if your child is coughing and has green snot bit is capable of joining in with everything?
DD has been with her CM for over 8 years since she was a baby. The only time the CM has ever been off sick is when she fell down the stairs and knocked herself unconscious. She took one days sick leave and was then back at work again.

p.s.re: the coughing and green snot my CM would be fine with that as long as the child is basically ok in themselves.

@KellyHall.
All settings have the same rules. They should not look after children with certain infectious illnesses or those too I'll to take part in normal activities. Because parents use calpol as a coping method doctors are finding growing numbers of children over medicated and addicted to the stuff with many getting through bottles of it rather than 1 bottle or so a year. Children not given the opportunity to rest and recover go from one illness to another because parents keep bringing in sick children who have more than a cough or sneeze.....nobody is saying the slightest cold. But if they cant get up and play normally, eat normally etc without 24 hour calpol they should be at home.
The only reason you maybe getting into nursery with a sick child is because the staff may have more children or not be as familiar with each child or have the time to talk to you on arrival not because they take in all sick children.

Nursery staff are always telling me they find children often show symptoms around 11am. It’s usually a sure sign the parents dosed them with Calpol in time to mask the symptoms, and the Calpol is wearing off. A pretty appalling way to behave.

My child goes to nursery unless she’s so ill I’d have to scrape her up
This is pretty appalling too.

I imagine it’s not about colds but about things like stomach bugs which they shouldn’t be sending children in if they’ve not been symptom free for 48 hours.

It's because I don't mask symptoms of unknown illnesses with over-medication that I know whether dd is well enough for nursery.

Adults know the difference in themselves when they have a cold or flu for example but with little ones you have to judge the severity of their affliction by how they're acting - if dd is sneezing/coughing but still playing happily, she's fine and she'll go to nursery; if she's a lying down/wanting to be cuddled constantly, grizzly and upset with no energy, she's not well and not going to nursery!

Apologies if "My child goes to nursery unless she’s so ill I’d have to scrape her up" was too vague for anyone, hopefully my elaboration will clear up any confusion.

As a child minder I know how many parents do send children in very poorly. It makes me so sad for the children and it's very selfish on the other children in my care. Plus myself and my own children.
I except children with cough cold etc. Happy to give calpol or antibiotics if/when needed. As long as they are well enough to join in with the usual routine. It's just the same as it would be at school or nursery. Same rules apply. If you wouldn't send your child to school/nursery like it then it's the same as a child minder. I never take time off sick!