Is nanny being unreasonable over travel pay?

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We have a full time nanny/housekeeper in a long term contract.

We pay her a good salary (and a bit more than her previous job) which is a strain in our finances, but she was an experienced nanny/housekeeper with good references and we felt she deserved the pay when we took her on. Any extra hours during the year we pay at £12/hour.

She is in her second year with us and last year we took her with us on our holidays. Beforehand, she informed us that in previous jobs, whenever she travelled with the family, she would get paid an EXTRA £100 per DAY in addition to all travel costs AND her monthly pay.

We told her we could not afford anywhere near that, and we offered her all travel expenses covered (of course) including food, plus working 2 extra hours per day at her £12/hr rate, and an extra £12 per day just for the trouble of being away from home.

We also told her she had the option not to come with us, take unpaid holiday and perhaps find a summer travel nanny job that would pay her what her previous families paid her.

She decided to come with us and accept the terms. However, the evening BEFORE the flight, when we had a lot of stress because we had just moved home two weeks before, our flat was full of boxes and we didn't even have our suitcases packed, and she knew all this, she tells me that she misunderstood what we had offered her (even though I had put it in writing) and that we are paying her too little for the trip.

We nearly fired her at that point for her lack of consideration but I could not possibly fly alone with 2 small children and a baby. She agreed to come anyways and kept insisting until we payed for her bus travel to the city where her family lives on the days off she was going to take while we were at our travel destination.

Fast forward a year, in which her performance has been declining compared to the first year, and we are now trying to agree if we can afford to take her with us and how much she wants. She is asking for £60 per day instead of £100 but that is still too much for us. She even told me that this job with us is her worst paid job ever, which is just not true, and definitely unfair because we are paying the most we can and a very reasonable rate.

What is your experience? Is it true that some nanny's get paid £100 EXTRA per day when travelling in addition to all expenses covered?

Would it be an option for us to just tell her that we don't need her over the holidays (and give her unpaid holiday)?

In the medium term we need to find a new nanny (a part time one) but for the next few months we can't let her go. Any advice?

You can't possibly travel on your own with your own kids? LOL.

Oh, yeah, the Nanny/Housekeeper. In other words, they want a Maid of All Work for Victorian wages.

I dont pay £100 or anything on top of her hourly rate when my nanny comes with us. We pay for her flight, accomodation, any extra hours she is working.

Where are these house keepers and nannies for £12 per hour

Assuming 12£p/h is net (as most nannies quote net pay) this would be about 38k per annum for a full-time role once you include tax that nanny is paying. So a good salary ime for a qualified nanny.

It sounds to me like you're both being unreasonable.
Without terms in her contract specifying pay terms for travel she is within her rights to negotiate a price with you. I'm very surprised that the agency you used didn't supply a contract that included these terms. If a compromise couldn't be made then it is a standard practise in nanny jobs for the nanny to use 50% of her annual leave when you go away, if you had already been away for this amount of time standard practise would be for the nanny to be given paid leave. Of course you would be within your rights to ask her to do work-related tasks during this time. In the past I have deep cleaned my charge's rooms, done family admin or caught up on batch cooking.
All of that being said it was unreasonable of her to raise the issue of pay again just before you were to go away.
It sounds to me that you're in two minds about this nanny, it would be worth having a chat with her about how you can go forward. If you really aren't happy then she probably isn't either....
As many others have said, I'm afraid the fact that you're finding her wages difficult to fund is completely irrelevant. It's so hard to find a good nanny but equally it's awful to be made to feel that your employment is precarious if your employer is stretching themselves too far. Please remember that all of her finances rely on you being able to pay her. If it really is too much of a stretch then please be honest and look for childcare that will better suit your budget. I don't know where you are based but in my experience in the south east £12nph is pretty average of what an experienced, qualified nanny would expect to be paid.

She's got three kids and is a house keeper. £12 an hour is too low for all that work and responsibility.

As a live out nanny she does not have to come on holiday with you unless your contract specifically says about that. So if you decide to go away, you need to still pay her at the usual pay rate. Using a Lay-Off clause because you are going on holiday I view as very unfair - it is not there to enable people to go on holiday and not pay permanent staff. You can insist that she takes her annual leave at the same time as you and if she does not have enough annual leave, then you still pay as you are contracted to pay salary throughout the year. You can also insist that she come in to work and does other reasonable duties whilst you are away.

Payment whilst they come with you on holiday I don't know anything about as I don't do it as a live-out nanny. £100 per day extra to their normal salary seems a bit high. It is not a holiday for them, their core working hours may be similar but they lose the time they have alone. If they want to come with you then that's fine and it's fine to agree a reasonable figure for 'change in location' of the work. £30-£60 per day might be reasonable, I think what is reasonable will depend on the individuals involved and the losses that may be incurred - if a live-out nanny babysits for other families during the week, or has another job, their losses may be quite high.

You can't possibly travel on your own with your own kids? LOL.

Depending upon the ages, some airlines won’t allow one adult to fly alone with three infants/children.

It’s irrelevant what she was paid in other jobs. All that matters is what’s in her contract (and that the terms of the contract are legal). Lots of people are in jobs where they had more favourable terms with previous employers but that has nothing to do with their current role. The time for negotiations is before the contract is signed.

When I was nannying I'd lost a lot of money by going away with a family (due to lost babysitting.)

Plus, not one of the many times I've been away has it been fun or a holiday for me. With three kids it would be bloody horrid.

I eventually had it put in to my contracts that I would not travel with the family unless I received a substantial amount of extra money. Because I just bloody didn't want to!

There is no norm. If you're London and I'm assuming not then it's like a different planet for paying nannies. I'd honestly let her go and start again. If she can't follow what she contractually has signed up it's not a good sign. You need to sit down and go over the terms of the contract and ask her if she's happy to continue or not. Go point by point. Neither of you have to be in this together.

You need to get out of the mindset that you're doing her a favour by taking her on holiday, while looking after your children. There are many places i would never book for a holiday, so yes it will be work for her, even if you think she should be grateful. And yes, you are getting childcare very cheap.

She's not choosing to go away, it's not a holiday for her. Although she gets down time, she is not where she wants to be. She misses her DP, can't see her friends, do jobs around the house or go to her gym class. She is away working and therefore should be paid accordingly. If you go weekend to weekend like most do, that is two weekends off that she has lost and is working instead.
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She doesn't particularly want to be nannying abroad as it is much harder without the routine, classes and toys at her charges house. Plus she's not able to go home at night and switch off the way she wants to. For the massive inconvenience i think it's fair she's paid extra.*

As someone who has been a 'holiday' nanny twice, I totally agree with this. One trip was absolutely awful and after a few days I wanted to escape. It was the longest two weeks of my life.

You need to get out of the mindset that you're doing her a favour by taking her on holiday, while looking after your children.

Also agree with this. It's your holiday, not hers.

OP I think you need to be clear on expectations re travel from the start and just stick to it. Your problems arose as it wasn't in the contract and you have different expectations to your nanny - neither is necessarily wrong. I think £12 per hour assuming you are paying paye / pension / paid holidays etc is pretty normal for full time nanny roles ime nanny shares or pre or post school pay more per hour.

OP, I still can't get over the unpaid leave. You said that she'd already had time off (which she is entitled too) and your time off would put you over the limit. That's not her problem! Too many times I hear of parents over booking their share of holiday and expecting the nanny to take it as unpaid leave. Cheek!

Poor nanny working for a MB who doesnt like her. Do the nanny a favour and give notice. A good nanny will find another job very quickly. You can then find someone you actually like. In the meantime contact an agency and hire a nanny for the flight only. Look after your own children on holiday. You are their mother after all.
Or you could leave the childen behind with the nanny.

£100 a day is def ott but I would say maybe £25 extra a day is fair - she is away from home. Her partner. She can’t see friends etc

You can’t leave her at home and not pay her

This should have been discussed at interview and what extra she would get if she went away with you

It’s quite normal for a nanny to go away with the family a reasonable amount of times during the year and not get paid extra. She’s contracted to do it. Many employees are required to travel as part of their jobs.

We’ve never required ours to travel with us, but have had a couple of nannies who stayed at interview that they wouldn’t travel with the family.

I would give her notice and find someone else, especially if you’ve employed fir less than 2 years, as it’s significantly more difficult to do it afterwards.

I am going to go around the whole point here but if you are not at work why in world do you need her? Plenty of people manage to travel with 2 children and a baby YABU for wanting her to even go on holidays with you!! Surely your children need to spend time with you!!??🙄

travel is not specified in her contract

Then surely there is a very simple conclusion: either agree a price or she stays at home on full pay.

So many of you are saying you don’t get paid extra when you go away for work, however, I doubt many of you are away from your family and friends for one or two whole weeks, you get to stay in a nice hotel on your own, have work colleagues around that you can go out for on accounts dinner with/sightsee with if you get the chance.

A nanny usually stays in a holiday home of some sort. The parents are always around, it’s not much fun going out to dinner or sightsee on your own. Once the children are in bed, nanny will feel a bit uncomfortable sitting around with her employers, no matter how nice they are and how well you get on and how much of a part of the family you become, it’s quite awkward. That means nanny has to go out alone or sit in her bedroom.

Don’t get me wrong, I know a lot of nannies, London and South East based and I don’t know any that get £100 a day away from home fee, mostly it’s around £15 - £25 a day.

I don’t go on holidays anymore, except skiing, and when I do, I’m quite flexible, I start late (9amish) they ski until around 2-3 when one comes home and I go ski until 5, a little apres ski with the ski instructor, then back to the chalet for a swim then read in the hot tub. Every other night they go out for dinner so I have the monitor outside with me. As they pay my ski hire, lift pass and I structor, I don’t charge them a holiday fee. For the last 21 years I have been doing this with 4 different families and it works well but we talk about it at interview and I have it in my contract.

@ftblue did you come to an arrangement with your nanny?

Yes I wondered this

What happened