Is nanny being unreasonable over travel pay?

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We have a full time nanny/housekeeper in a long term contract.

We pay her a good salary (and a bit more than her previous job) which is a strain in our finances, but she was an experienced nanny/housekeeper with good references and we felt she deserved the pay when we took her on. Any extra hours during the year we pay at £12/hour.

She is in her second year with us and last year we took her with us on our holidays. Beforehand, she informed us that in previous jobs, whenever she travelled with the family, she would get paid an EXTRA £100 per DAY in addition to all travel costs AND her monthly pay.

We told her we could not afford anywhere near that, and we offered her all travel expenses covered (of course) including food, plus working 2 extra hours per day at her £12/hr rate, and an extra £12 per day just for the trouble of being away from home.

We also told her she had the option not to come with us, take unpaid holiday and perhaps find a summer travel nanny job that would pay her what her previous families paid her.

She decided to come with us and accept the terms. However, the evening BEFORE the flight, when we had a lot of stress because we had just moved home two weeks before, our flat was full of boxes and we didn't even have our suitcases packed, and she knew all this, she tells me that she misunderstood what we had offered her (even though I had put it in writing) and that we are paying her too little for the trip.

We nearly fired her at that point for her lack of consideration but I could not possibly fly alone with 2 small children and a baby. She agreed to come anyways and kept insisting until we payed for her bus travel to the city where her family lives on the days off she was going to take while we were at our travel destination.

Fast forward a year, in which her performance has been declining compared to the first year, and we are now trying to agree if we can afford to take her with us and how much she wants. She is asking for £60 per day instead of £100 but that is still too much for us. She even told me that this job with us is her worst paid job ever, which is just not true, and definitely unfair because we are paying the most we can and a very reasonable rate.

What is your experience? Is it true that some nanny's get paid £100 EXTRA per day when travelling in addition to all expenses covered?

Would it be an option for us to just tell her that we don't need her over the holidays (and give her unpaid holiday)?

In the medium term we need to find a new nanny (a part time one) but for the next few months we can't let her go. Any advice?

Thanks for all the replies, it is very helpful although it seems there are two sides completely opposite: those nannies who get paid extra (and some quite a lot) just for being abroad and those who don't get paid more or get paid only for extra worked hours.

In my original post it may have seemed to some like I was threatening her with not paying her, but it was really not like that. The way she explained it to me, that she was in an agency before where people would get hired for hours + £100 extra per day to go on holidays, I sincerely told her that she may be better off taking a short-term job over the holidays with people who can pay those rates, and that it would be fine for us.

Regarding the paid holidays, she will be taking some of them while we are away, but she also took some during the year so there are not enough holidays to cover the entire time we will be away.

And travel is not specified in her contract, but we talked before hiring her that it would happen, and it was my big mistake not to specify the exact terms in the contract. I never imagined she would asked for so much extra.

(And this was with 3 children under 6)

I am travelling alone during the time she would be with me. I could manage without her, but it would be difficult. The "baby" is not a baby anymore, and he wasn't a newborn either last year.

Some of you who say I don't like the nanny, and you are partially right, there are a few things I don't like about her (specially after her behaviour last year the day before the flight) but it is impossible to find a nanny that you like 100%, isn't it? I don't think this is a reason to let her go, but try to work things out.

It's many years since I was a nanny but it was perfectly normal for nannies to be paid extra while on the family holiday. If course expenses are paid,that should go without saying.

**of course

You have three very small children- any nanny is going to charge you a premium because the job is a lot of work.

If it's not in her contract then you need to pay her the usual salary while she stays home, or negotiate in good faith about holiday pay, hours and conditions. We hired a nanny through an agency and realised that her contract is silent as to times we are away. We spoke to the agency about it and they said given she also does casual/temp work and could easily pick up days, the decent thing would be to offer her half pay for the time we would be away. We also gave her three months notice so she had a lot of opportunities to let her agencies know she would be available or book her own break if she wanted to. She was happy (and came out ahead financially) and so were we. It's not like hiring a plumber or something, this person is responsible for your babies-it's an ongoing relationship built on trust and mutual respect. You have to treat her well and feel that she does the same for you. She has bills, family, friends and a life the same as you. You can just force her on holiday with you or cut off her income while you're away.

You should not be threatening her with weeks of no pay, that's uncivil.

I travel for work and receive no extra money- but it's in my contract that I am expected to do so. It is not in your nanny's so she is free to name her terms and you are free to accept, reject or counter them.

Also - Your budget is not relevant. Her market value is. Research what a similarly qualified nanny would receive at market for the same role, and judge her salary according to that.

Well if travel isn't part of her contract, then it's fine for her to negotiate an amount of extra pay that makes it worthwhile for her.

If you can't afford to bring her, then don't. Either pay her annual leave or pay her as normal and she works her normal hours at your home.

And no, this isn't an option:
Would it be an option for us to just tell her that we don't need her over the holidays (and give her unpaid holiday)?

Just because you're paying her at the top of your budget doesn't mean it isn't her worst ever paid job.

It's rude of her to say that I think but maybe her other employers were better off.

She shouldn't have to use her holidays because you choose to go away if she doesn't come with you. You should pay her her normal rate when you are away and get her to do other stuff.

I ran a couple of nanny agencies and we would advise both you and the nanny that you're being very unreasonable. £12 extra a day for forcing her to go away?! That's taking the piss.

I also nannying for years and would charge way more than £12 extra day. If you can't manage your children on their own that's your problem, not hers.

Maybe time to end the employment before she has been with you two years. Then she pursue these higher paying jobs.

I reserve the right to dictate all my nanny's holiday, but it's all laid out in the contract.

Do you pay your nanny/housekeeper £12/hour? I thought they earned much more than that?

It’s interesting there’s such a divide of opinion on this.

Most of my friends who have nannies take them on some of the family holidays - it’s required in the contracts and nothing extra is paid for this.

you couldn't possibly travel with 3 children lol

When we had the nanny, we were both working stupidly long hours, DH often away. We both felt we saw far too little of the kids. We looked forward to holidays so much; just us and them. No school, no nanny. I just can’t comprehend why parents who need s nanny due to long hours don’t want to leave that nanny at home do they can be 24/7 with their children for a 2wk holiday.

actually when my husband or I travel away for work, we only get our travel expenses paid, we don't get paid any extra money on top of the salary whatsoever. Isn't that the standard in most industries?

I've done quite a lot of overseas travel for business and, at most, got a small per diem sum to cover food and business travel. But absolutely nothing to cover 'personal' expenses. It isn't a holiday (for her), so she shouldn't expect 'spending money' as well!!

*BitterSweenSyn Fri 24-May-19 12:42:02
When my work closes over the Christmas period I am forced to take annual leave, why can't she be made to take her leave when you are on holiday?

Just because your job has low standards as an employer doesn’t mean you should*

How is that low standards , if a company shuts down for a period how are the employees able to work?

Its pretty standard , think large manufactoring companies that cant operate if they have staff out on holidays , it makes sense to shut the whole place down for 2 weeks and everyone take their holidays then

Would it be an option for us to just tell her that we don't need her over the holidays (and give her unpaid holiday)?

No you cant do this , what you should have done is say she should take her annual leave at the same time .........you have been paying her at least the minimum statutory leave ? , and set up a pension plan ?

We take our nanny with us so we have an extra pair of hands - useful around swimming pools etc - so that we can have one on one with one child while she has the other, and so that DH and I can actually see each other!

Just because your job has low standards as an employer doesn’t mean you should

I agree, especially when we are entrusting the most vulnerable members of our family to that person's care.

Also if you are on a high wage, certain things may be taken as included, whereas 12 pounds an hour is relatively low.

There's no normal, but if she's expecting to work additional hours over her standard ones then £100 might not be unreasonable especially if they are antisocial hours. I'm pretty sure my friends paid a decent amount extra but partly to cover incidentals

You pay someone £12/hr to look after 3 small children?? The same hourly rate you pay her to be your housekeeper too?

Wow.

You are not paying enough money for the service you want. You’re expecting someone to look after your home and 3 children, for 8hrs/day, at an overtime rate (which I assume is either equal to or higher than her regular rate) of £12/hr. She lives out and comes to your home for 8 hrs/day.

Now you want her to drop her life and responsibilities outside of your 8hr/day role, go abroad with you, do the same job in more difficult circumstances without the comforts of her own home life, plus work an extra 2hrs/day (albeit paid), all for just an extra £12/day?

You think that leaving her life at home is only worth £12/day?

You’re not providing her with a career that leads to promotion and regular pay rises, status and interesting/fulfilling work, the sorts of things that people who travel for work tend to expect in return. She does menial work. You’re not paying her big bucks either.

You’re looking for a champagne service on a beer budget. You can’t afford what you want.

@7salmonswimming you'd be amazed at just how many of these cheeky fuckers I encountered working with agencies.