Is nanny being unreasonable over travel pay?

[fblue]

We have a full time nanny/housekeeper in a long term contract.

We pay her a good salary (and a bit more than her previous job) which is a strain in our finances, but she was an experienced nanny/housekeeper with good references and we felt she deserved the pay when we took her on. Any extra hours during the year we pay at £12/hour.

She is in her second year with us and last year we took her with us on our holidays. Beforehand, she informed us that in previous jobs, whenever she travelled with the family, she would get paid an EXTRA £100 per DAY in addition to all travel costs AND her monthly pay.

We told her we could not afford anywhere near that, and we offered her all travel expenses covered (of course) including food, plus working 2 extra hours per day at her £12/hr rate, and an extra £12 per day just for the trouble of being away from home.

We also told her she had the option not to come with us, take unpaid holiday and perhaps find a summer travel nanny job that would pay her what her previous families paid her.

She decided to come with us and accept the terms. However, the evening BEFORE the flight, when we had a lot of stress because we had just moved home two weeks before, our flat was full of boxes and we didn't even have our suitcases packed, and she knew all this, she tells me that she misunderstood what we had offered her (even though I had put it in writing) and that we are paying her too little for the trip.

We nearly fired her at that point for her lack of consideration but I could not possibly fly alone with 2 small children and a baby. She agreed to come anyways and kept insisting until we payed for her bus travel to the city where her family lives on the days off she was going to take while we were at our travel destination.

Fast forward a year, in which her performance has been declining compared to the first year, and we are now trying to agree if we can afford to take her with us and how much she wants. She is asking for £60 per day instead of £100 but that is still too much for us. She even told me that this job with us is her worst paid job ever, which is just not true, and definitely unfair because we are paying the most we can and a very reasonable rate.

What is your experience? Is it true that some nanny's get paid £100 EXTRA per day when travelling in addition to all expenses covered?

Would it be an option for us to just tell her that we don't need her over the holidays (and give her unpaid holiday)?

In the medium term we need to find a new nanny (a part time one) but for the next few months we can't let her go. Any advice?

@fblue Similarly to me, but you'll find that most of these sort of rules do not apply to those that work in childcare. The work is significantly different also. When I travel for work, I'm only responsible for myself, not children. You also need to keep in mind you do have more than one child which does add to the cost.

Unfortunately, it's really difficult to find good help, but I do find a lot of employer's also take advantage of their staff in such fields as they personally feel they pay too much, failing to realise they actually are providing someone else's livelihood and most times are under-paying staff.

I would suggest you look around, see what the going rate and conditions are around your area and then figure out if you feel this nanny is worth what she is requesting, or if you can in fact get someone else at a better price.

I’m really shocked reading this!

In the past we’ve always just paid the nanny her normal rate to stay home, it isn’t their fault we’re taking a holiday!
Occasionally for weekends when absolutely necessary we have taken a nanny and paid 24/7 hours of the trip as well as own room, food and drink. I couldn’t afford this for a week+ so just give nanny the week or two off paid. I can’t believe you want her to take it unpaid! Or for an extra £12 a day!!

I don’t think I would pay a nanny extra for coming on hols with us. I would make sure that she had ample time off and meet her expenses of doing something fun on our holiday (as well as meeting all food and drink costs etc) so it was also fun for her. Having said that, the alternative of not coming with us would be that she would stay home and be paid her usual rate - ie use up her paid holidays. I think it’s a bit weird that a nanny who stays home would be on unpaid leave.

What she is paid for being away with you will depend on what is in her contract. As you are having discussions about it, I am assuming that her contract is silent on this point. What does it say about place of work and overtime?

If it says that she is contracted to work in your permanent home and says nothing about overtime, what she is paid is up for negotiation. You cannot force her to come with you on any terms and you cannot force her to take unpaid leave if you do not need her unless the contract says you can.

If she has been employed for under two Years, you can dismiss her by giving the contractual notice.

When my work closes over the Christmas period I am forced to take annual leave, why can't she be made to take her leave when you are on holiday?

It sounds as if she feels that you need her more than she needs you, I think it's time to find a new nanny.

When my work closes over the Christmas period I am forced to take annual leave, why can't she be made to take her leave when you are on holiday?

Just because your job has low standards as an employer doesn’t mean you should.

We also told her she had the option not to come with us, take unpaid holiday and perhaps find a summer travel nanny job that would pay her what her previous families paid her.

You didn't really give her a choice but to come with you - it was that or take unpaid leave. So it's hardly surprising she wants to be well paid for having to spend the summer away working.

YABVU

I don't understand - doesn't she get paid holiday? Can't she use that while you're away?

I think it's fine not to pay what she asks for the holiday (and the only relevant factor really here is market rate, not what other people in non comparable jobs do) - but why does she have to take unpaid leave if she doesn't come?

Yes, she gets her own room and set hours, and she is can clock off after the hours are done.

Responding to some of the later replies, it was never my intention to not pay her anything extra, just not the rates that she is asking for. Most of the posts seem to indicate that £100 per day extra is definitely not the norm, although it may not be unheard of.

Baffled that you’re happy for someone like this, who you don’t seem to like and versa, to look after your children.

Can't she take paid holiday? Most nanny contracts allow the employer to dictate 50% go through holidays and let the nanny choose the other 50%. This could fall within the employer allocation.

Sorry, again I was replying to @Pugpigprick in my last post but forgot to include it

Is she contracted to travel with you?

I have a friend that is a nanny and this is pretty standard from what she says.

She's not choosing to go away, it's not a holiday for her. Although she gets down time, she is not where she wants to be. She misses her DP, can't see her friends, do jobs around the house or go to her gym class. She is away working and therefore should be paid accordingly. If you go weekend to weekend like most do, that is two weekends off that she has lost and is working instead.

She doesn't particularly want to be nannying abroad as it is much harder without the routine, classes and toys at her charges house. Plus she's not able to go home at night and switch off the way she wants to. For the massive inconvenience i think it's fair she's paid extra.

I was unsure initially, but the way she explained it it makes sense to me.

Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to leave the nanny at home, pay her normally and look after your own kids?

With our last nanny her contract stated that she could pick 2 weeks of holiday, we picked 2 and the last was by mutual agreement (usually Christmas)

If we went away and didn't need her, she was on full pay (either as holiday or just free time off if it was out of the agreed weeks) We would never enforce unpaid leave. She worked really hard, I wouldn't begrudge her some extra time off.

If we needed her on holiday I would have offered her extra for the inconvenience. Probably not £100, perhaps £50/day. Because her social life is now cut short and it is inconvenient.

But we loved her, and I hope she liked us too.

It sounds as if you don't actually like your nanny much, which is really a bigger issue than her holiday pay. Perhaps time for both parties to move on.

Also, flying solo with kids isn't that bad, promise. Everyone is very helpful and you'll all make it in the end, just plan well with distractions, bribes, small gifts and snacks at the DC.

There are two different scenarios here, and it isn't clear which one applies.

Either the nanny is contractually obliged to travel with her employer and knew travel was expected when she took the job, and is negotiating over the details (pay etc should really have been defined in the contract - lesson learned for the OP)

OR

The nanny isn't contracted to travel and the OP is hoping she will agree as a favour/out of goodwill. And then to ensure the nanny does agree to it, she threatens to illegally withhold her pay if she won't travel.

We have a nanny housekeeper and checked this point very carefully as we require quite a lot of travel.

Absolutely nobody we spoke to said they paid extra for travel.

You pay all travel expenses, meals etc while away, and the normal salary. Any overtime you pay at normal rate.

I’m assuming your contract says that travel may be required? If so that’s just part of the deal, she doesn’t get paid extra.

Tbh though she sounds a pain and I’d look to replace her anyway.

Sorry just seen it’s not in her contract that she should travel with you - so you can’t require her to, but her expectations are unreasonable.

Our nanny is delighted to come on holiday with us - means she gets the weekend and evenings in a nice resort all paid for!

In the OP it says she's a nanny/housekeeper. In that case I'd leave her at home to spring clean the house from top to bottom. And maybe invite a friend or family member to stay in the house to make sure she is working!!

Bonus for traveling is standard for a nanny.

If you are giving her set hours while traveling, she has her own room, she is free to do what she wants during her off time, and she has some means of travel at your destination, you might be able to justify not paying her extra. It’s rare that clients don’t expect the nanny to just help out a bit during the trip.

You absolutely, positively, can not expect her to take unpaid time or use her own holiday allotment because you are traveling.

I may be missing the point here but for me the point of a holiday is to spend quality family time together!

So leave the nanny at home, paid her usual hours and spend time with your children on holiday!

Does no one take in to consideration how many children they are looking after? It seems this fact is being missed. The nanny is in this situation looking after 3 children, one which is a newborn. Surely the more children you have the rate you pay would match the work required. Similarly to childminders, more is paid for every additional child in the family.

Anyway, as aforementioned, I think it's best to seek out the rates and conditions of what is accepted for nannies in your area and come to some sort of agreement in accordance to that. However, as others have mentioned, you don't seem to really like this woman, but that appears on the basis that you are paying her the top end of your budget which again is not her problem. It may be best for both if you do find someone else, and she can also find a family that would fit her financial requirements too.

Do you really need her with you? Are you travelling alone or with your partner? When we had a f/t live out nanny, she never came on holiday with us. When we went away she stayed home on full pay. Maybe I’m unusual but I would never have wanted her on holiday with us. Holidays are family time for us. But then I only had a nanny for childcare so I could work.