What am I doing wrong... or do we just have too many kids?

[seafoodudon]

We've just had two au pairs lasting about six months each, and both were pretty successful (neither perfect, obvs, but both really solid and the childcare got done safely and effectively). The second of these au pairs left suddenly (nothing to do with the job or us), and we're really struggling to replace her.

We're using au pair world as that worked well for the last two (and previously we'd used an agency but I totally balked when I found that for the £600 fee they had done nothing more than read her application form and speak to her on the phone - that au pair was good, but only by luck!).

However, for about 10 days now I've been checking in twice a day, sending messages to girls (I'm probably pushing 100 messages now), and not really getting anywhere with anyone. Most of my messages go ignored. We got as far as a phone interview with one who sounded lovely, but then it transpired that there was a really messy backstory about why she wanted to come to the UK and we decided we couldn't risk being involved (it was illegal...).

I think our profile is very 'honest' as we have four young kids and our house is busy BUT we're clear that the max hours per week will be 30 (which is in line with what APW says is 'normal') and we're offering £100 pocket money plus a weekly bus pass worth £15pw. Whilst APW suggest £80-£85. The room is honestly lovely (big converted attic space with exclusive use of new bathroom) - I wish I could go live up there. We never expect work at the weekend, and we can normally give the au pair at least one other day off in the week.

We live in Manchester - rather than London - which I genuinely think is a super city, and we live close to the city centre (15 mins on the bus) - but it seems so many au pairs just want to be in London.

Sorry - not quite sure what I'm looking for here - top tips perhaps?!

Thanks underneaththeash a young persons rail card is a great idea!

Loungewearfan - I'm on my phone so hopefully this will work. You need to register if you pay more than £116/week.

www.gov.uk/paye-for-employers

I haven't read the whole thread but a lot of the first 2 pages. Why are people bashing the OP on an au pair topic?! If you don't understand au pairs then why come onntbe au pair section of mumsnet? It's silly..people saying you need to pay NMW are incorrect!

Do they not get paid per child?! Surely they all opt for fewer kids in that case!

OP what will you do with the school aged children in the holidays? Perhaps the AP's are worried they'll be expected to look after them, which would of course be ridiculous; maybe make it explicitly the advert that this isn't the case?

Lots of people unfamiliar with the au pair topic here

My thoughts as a long term au pair employer:

You've already raised money to the max which I would have suggested. It seems the room/bathroom situation is good so nothing more to do there

4 children is frankly a lot compared to your competition (other host families), you need to be very clear in your profile that you don't expect laundry and cleaning at all if that is the case

30 hours is too much for an au pair (very surprised that you think this is the norm...) you need to reduce your expectations here

Au pairs are not pre-schooler care or all-day nannies, you need to ensure that the children (all 4 of them) are in full time childcare, au pairs are first thing and end of school day only.

Offer to pay for language classes, travel and sim

We have had a few au pairs, all have stayed well beyond the year, it's about demonstrating that you'll help them become fluent in English and have a great experience, welcome them as part of your family.

I think Brexit plus the fact that you are recruiting outside the usual recruiting season in summer mean it's harder, but not impossible. I wish you luck.

I was also going to suggest that the uncertainty of the au pair's position after Brexit might be putting them off.

Would you consider an au pair couple? They often find it hard to find a host family because of space constraints, but it sounds like you would have enough space for two.

As someone who has been an Au Pair, for me it would just be that it's too many children I'm afraid . I found it hard enough with my placements with families of 2 kids.

Another one who thinks you are asking far too much.

I have four young kids and a busy crazy house. I pay my babysitters very well (depending on how late we are, but never less than £50 a night).

Whilst my kids are generally well behaved, and we don't go out often, anyone who I trust with my kids, well, I want them to feel well compensated, so that should things ever go unexpectedly downhill, they don't feel taken advantage of and are keen to return.

As an ex au pair, I would absolutely skip over your profile. Sorry!

If you’re a small employer that expects to pay less than £1,500 a month, you can arrange to pay quarterly - contact HMRC’s payment enquiry helpline

And reading through the site, au pairs are still exempt as it’s classed as pocket money.

Interesting subject and not sure I like the sweeping in of bossy boots declaring that none of us have had Au Pairs and even if some posters haven’t, I am not sure that having employed one makes a poster an authority on the subject.

I think it’s simple, it’s not attracting applicants because it’s not an attractive package.

From gov.uk

There are special rules for au pairs, who aren’t usually considered workers or employees

Lounge - it's been a long time since anyone has called me bossy boots; primary school maybe .

Payment of over £116 a week requires you to register as an employer for TAX purposes. If you ring HMRC they will confirm it, if you don't believe me.

And yes, I do think I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to au pairs, we've had 7 successful placements, all of whom have stayed or wanted to stay longer than their original placement and we still keep in touch with 6 of them. We're visiting our German au pair in Germany this Summer. I've also helped several of my friends find au pairs and we've had a couple staying in our au pair's flat when things have broken down with their host families.

It's clearly evident that several of the posters on this thread have no idea what they are talking about and my point is why post? It's unhelpful to the OP and just goady. I wouldn't post on a thread about chicken feeding or SEN as I don't know anything about them.

If you and your husband both work from home and have some flexibility could you reduce the hours to 25 per week. I think it just sounds exhausting with 4 children. I used to babysit and while happy with 1 or 2 I wouldn’t have been keen on 4.

Sorry I know it’s probably not what you want to hear! Good luck

underneaththeash sorry, you are wrong. If you read HMRC guidance, it specifically excludes Au Pairs because it is classed as a cultural exchange.

*An au pair isn’t classed as a worker or an employee if most of the following apply:

they’re an EU citizen or have entered the UK on a Youth Mobility visa or student visa
they’re here on a cultural exchange programme
they’ve got a signed letter of invitation from the host family that includes details of their stay, for example accommodation, living conditions, approximate working hours, free time, pocket money
they learn about British culture from the host family and share their own culture with them
they have their own private room in the house, provided free of charge
they eat their main meals with the host family, free of charge*

This is the trouble with self proclaimed experts dismissing everyone else.

The only issue is if the pocket money is enough to incur tax and NI which is way over £150 a week.

@Wallywobbles makes a very good point - would you consider an au pair couple? They share the room, can work 25 hours each (independently or together). You might be able to get a couple for £75 each as they will also have less choice.

Right, so I've upped the offered pay to £110 (with a note to increase after 3 months - we can look into whether that's cash or a non monetary benefit like gym or cinema pass). I've reduced the hours to 25 (which will be a stretch for us but I will just have to get used to doing more work in the evenings/at night). I've added a mobile phone and pay towards language classes into the offer (on top of the bus pass). I've left in much of the detail about family life but put a short summary, highlighted, right at the top of the profile. There was already since stuff about how super Manchester is, but I bigged it up a bit more.

And... Nada... Literally not a single application in 18 hours...

So, I've come to the conclusion that I will need to sell two of our kids and buy a house in zone 3 (or 4, or the home counties). Perhaps then we can get an au pair?!

In all seriousness, we will definitely chat about a couple. But as they don't have that as an identifier on apw, I'm not sure how you search for them. I've had a couple of enquiries from girls wanting to bring girl pals which would be fine in principle but we don't want to lug double bed out of attic and replace with two singles, especially as probably fairly temporarily. Though this might be something to discuss further. (I would also worry a bit that even best friends might struggle sharing a room for a prolonged period).

OP - all good steps I think, another thing that might help, have you tried contacting Au Pairs directly on the site, not just waiting for applications - you can see the ones who are actively looking as it shows their response rate and last login.

I do this for the ones I like the profile of and send a tailored message saying something I liked about their profile and that I’d like to meet them on Skype if they think we would be a good fit. My last 2 Au pairs I contacted proactively this way - I think many host family profiles get lost and no-one scrolls through all the pages.

Also, their profile states if they are a couple applying..

Thanks viebien I've sent 73 messages and counting! So far one but of those has replied positively and we're chatting but she wants to bring a girl friend and I'm not keen on the idea. I'll just keep plugging away whilst pursuing other options too.

I wonder if an agency is a sensible approach if we continue not to get anywhere.

Look after 4 children for 30 hours a week for £100! That's some offer. That's 83p an hour per child.

Sorry OP - didn’t mean to tell you how to suck eggs

I remember APW years ago when I first looked for an AP - got 40+ applications the first evening. Literally more than I could cope with! Since the referendum result it has been a very different story. We are including planning alternative childcare options as part of our hard Brexit prep along with stocking up on frozen veg...

I really hope

Oops lost some of my post - I really hope you find someone soon that should say

Thanks so much Viebien. It's just frustrating because it was really straightforward to hire two good au pairs last year - one on less money, one on more hours than the current package. Same house, same kids - but they were a year younger! There still seems to be a lot of au pairs looking (my search criteria is getting 430ish 'matches') but there seem to be so many people looking. I joined a couple of au pair finding FB pages and there must be 6-10 adverts from families for every advert from an au pair looking for a family. And those that are looking are often for really short periods of time, 1-3 months, that just wouldn't work for us. Ah well - yes, seems we will need to think outside the box a bit. Thanks for your helpful suggests and positive comments!