What am I doing wrong... or do we just have too many kids?

[seafoodudon]

We've just had two au pairs lasting about six months each, and both were pretty successful (neither perfect, obvs, but both really solid and the childcare got done safely and effectively). The second of these au pairs left suddenly (nothing to do with the job or us), and we're really struggling to replace her.

We're using au pair world as that worked well for the last two (and previously we'd used an agency but I totally balked when I found that for the £600 fee they had done nothing more than read her application form and speak to her on the phone - that au pair was good, but only by luck!).

However, for about 10 days now I've been checking in twice a day, sending messages to girls (I'm probably pushing 100 messages now), and not really getting anywhere with anyone. Most of my messages go ignored. We got as far as a phone interview with one who sounded lovely, but then it transpired that there was a really messy backstory about why she wanted to come to the UK and we decided we couldn't risk being involved (it was illegal...).

I think our profile is very 'honest' as we have four young kids and our house is busy BUT we're clear that the max hours per week will be 30 (which is in line with what APW says is 'normal') and we're offering £100 pocket money plus a weekly bus pass worth £15pw. Whilst APW suggest £80-£85. The room is honestly lovely (big converted attic space with exclusive use of new bathroom) - I wish I could go live up there. We never expect work at the weekend, and we can normally give the au pair at least one other day off in the week.

We live in Manchester - rather than London - which I genuinely think is a super city, and we live close to the city centre (15 mins on the bus) - but it seems so many au pairs just want to be in London.

Sorry - not quite sure what I'm looking for here - top tips perhaps?!

That seems really low!! I was an aupair in Italy 22 years ago and got approx £40-50 a week to look after 2 children.

Wow, lot of replies accusing me of being a modern day slave keeper! It's really not comparable to hiring a nanny because of the room, board etc - you're also taking on someone who may not have very good English, and may have limited experience.

Thanks IncrediblySad glad to see not everyone thinks I'm evil! YOu know what - we do both work from home, quite a bit....

I love Manchester. But someone not British, applying for an au-pair job in the UK is going to be attracted by all the iconic London sights. I wonder whether you’d be more successful trying to find someone local.

Simples! you just need a Man U supporter;) Dunno how much a season ticket is but;!

Sure some do exist.

I'll ask our au-Pair but she is an older one maybe that might be a drection you ought to look in?.

I think you’re underpaying OP, unintentionally but still!

A friends daughter is an au pair to two boys, one aged 2, the other aged 6 in Edinburgh. Eldest in school, youngest goes to nursery three days. Au pair takes children to school / nursery and collects afterwards, plus childcare two days. She babysits Fri / Sat once a month until midnight. She cooks basic meals for the children, makes beds, and does kids laundry. Everything else domestic is done by cleaner twice weekly, and parents cook their own meals. She gets travel pass, gym pass, mobile paid for, Cineworld membership and attic room with en-suite plus £150 weekly. During school holidays she’s paid £350. Australian so no language lessons required. Even in 2004 when I aupaired in London for 10weeks for a mum post op I got £100/wk plus board and lodgings and my mobile paid for. The upcoming Brexit is putting off your EU staff, so you’re left with those on a working holiday gap year type visa probably Commonwealth citizens.
Realistically calculate 30 hours at minimum wage, deduct lodges rates for your area plus your extras. How close is your offer to your calculated amount?

Quite a lot of ignorance on au pairs here .

Manchester will certainly have appeal to au pairs. Plenty of people in towns can get au pairs ffs, so I don't think someone living in Manchester will have an issue.

I also know several Manchester familes with au pairs.

OP: I would probably add another extra to entice interest. Only you can know what that may be.

Yes MyDream! We've been a family with an au pair for the last 12 months (two different ones), I just can't figure out why the same package (actually slightly upped offer!) isn't attractive now when it was twice in the last 12 months. I'll go and extend our search to commonwealth - that's a good idea. I'd been put off by expense of 'returning them' but I guess that's only a bridge we'd need to cross if we got one!

NotTheQueen sounds like your friend's daughter has a good deal - but childcare is Edinburgh is much more expensive to come by than in Manchester in general, we have to pay our teenage Edinburgh babysitter £10 ph (she's very good, but still)....

You do sound like a nice family but you're really minimising how much work there is with 4 kids instead of one or two. Why would anyone ever choose to pick 4 rather than two for barely more than a tenners difference.

I know you don't think the hours are high and the pay low op ..but the fact that you are getting no takers seems to indicate this. You have had 2 before but did you have lots of people interested at the time or just the ones you took on?

You have lost a day a week placement at nursery. Could you use the money you are saving there to up the pay?

I know it's not like employing a nanny but au pair duties are similar to a mother's help and they would get more than double this and would still receive room and board.

Hi shiningstar I guess it's not that I don't think the hours are high and the wages low, but the hours are bang on what APW suggests, and the wage a fair bit more, so I'm a bit surprised to hear people say that, but I take your point (and as it's come from a lot of people on the thread I guess that must be the case!). Previously I didn't have lots of interest, but equally we didn't take on the only people that were keen. Both times we had a decent handful to choose from.

We are already giving the extra money to the au pair. The au pair before last was on 25 hours with £85 pay, then the last one asked for more hours so did 33 hours for £110. We could pay £110 for the 30 hours, I can offer that...

I would up the pay a bit or reduce the hours. I would also make sure you are advertising any perks you are offering eg ...use of car for personal use or no evening babysitting ...or 1 max 1 night a week babysitting included in hours ext.

Oh, and we previously had a British mother's help through an agency who we similarly gave bed and board to, and paid her £150 pw. She was very good and stayed a year.

Some might like more evening babysitting included in the hours is this is suitable to you because the children would be in bed.

My understanding from friends with au pairs is that they are for limited after school care rather than proper childcare. So I do think you are expecting quite a lot in wanting your preschool child cared for as well as getting 4 children washed and ready for bed. My two friends with au pairs both only school pick up, play and entertain them, might give a cheese sandwich but don’t cook meals, and do after bedtime babysitting but don’t do the actual bedtime part. They also only have two children and pay the same.

So maybe change the expectations and up the pay or perks.

Brexit will be making Britain an uncertain place too.

I think you would get lots of takers for £150 but I can see that with au pairs you might not get the experience which made that worth it. I would go with £125 and see what happens with that. A day's nursery is expensive and you are getting a lot more flexibility with a good au pair plus help with the other children, basic meals ext and someone in the house when the kids maybe have a cold/bug ext and can't get to school/nursery. This kind of help is invaluable with 4 kids. None of those last minute panics about getting off to work or trying to work from home.

I think Manchester would be a great city to be an au pair in.

I think the pay is way too low for four kids.

APW- think their wording is ‘never work more than’ 30 hours so I wouldn’t interpret that as the average or the suggested number. It’s a huge amount of work for so little pay. I personally think it’s unrealistic and unfair. Ours does 20-22 hours. Looking after one child (we have two but other is in nursery all day). Language fees paid. Own beautiful room with en suite. Pay £110. Beautiful city. For some reason I think you think they’re getting a great deal- work out the hourly pay and for 4 kids and you’ll see they are not. I recently found a new au pair and the numbers were down but still hundreds of applicants

Careful of increasing pay or you’re seen as their employer tax wise

Shitty wages. Doesn't matter whether they get a free "nice" room and meals. For that amount of money and things they've got to do, that's all you pay them? It's no wonder you're not getting any request.

Looking after four bloody kids, essentially doing the job that you are supposed to do? Why did you have 4 kids if you're just dumping them on an Au Pair?

Solution? Pay them more money!

Sounds good with the attic - i take it you pay all bills and provide all food? i like manchester, if only i liked children

PPs who are accusing you of paying slave wages don’t understand how the AP system works. Just ignore them.

However, you need to understand that four kids is definitely, absolutely, unequivocally a LOT more work than two kids. It’s not just hours are hours. There’s a huge difference between, say, evening babysitting while the kids are asleep and she can sit and watch Netflix vs full on juggling four kids with meal prep, homework, baths, school runs, and the rest of it. When she’s got all four kids it will be chaotic and she won’t even have a chance to take a breath. If you’re expecting ANY duties betind “in the moment” childcare, like kids’ laundry, tidying, or meal prep beyond reheating what you’ve already made you need to pay for extra time rather than considering them concurrent duties during the childcare hours. (Obviously this May be different on the days she has only one child, esp if the child naps.) Money is one thing but there’s only so much one person can physically do.

Also how are the 30 hours spread out? Are you expecting her to be up in tthe morning to get the kids ready or take them to school and then pick up again in the afternoon? It would be more attractive if she only had one solid block of hours each day, so she could sleep in (or sometimes spend the night with a friend or boyfriend) and start her day at 3 pm or whatever.

The fact that you had good Au pairs in the past is encouraging, but I think it’s like the real estate market. The house you can buy for £200K this year may cost £300K next year. It’s all about supply and demand.

Good luck!

Gosh OP it seems you need a nanny but can only pay au pair rates. You are also massively minimizing the job you want done, FT childcare for one pre schooler (au pairs are not usually qualified for this) and dinner and baths for the rest? 'Bunging something in the oven' or 'light veg/oven food' is still cooking. No young person wants to come to all of that just because they have a nice bedroom.

Not a hope in hell would I live in someone else's house following their rules looking after their 4 children for 30hrs FOR £100 a week. The 'bonus' of a Manchester bus pass doesn't make it any more appealing !
Sorry OP but if you want quality childcare, you have to pay for it.

How old is the pre-schooler. A fully toliet trained nearly 4 year old would be very different to a two year old but to be honest either way that sounds more childcare job than au pair job.

So you want a live in nanny but only want to pay buttons?

You’re complete fools.