What am I doing wrong... or do we just have too many kids?

[seafoodudon]

We've just had two au pairs lasting about six months each, and both were pretty successful (neither perfect, obvs, but both really solid and the childcare got done safely and effectively). The second of these au pairs left suddenly (nothing to do with the job or us), and we're really struggling to replace her.

We're using au pair world as that worked well for the last two (and previously we'd used an agency but I totally balked when I found that for the £600 fee they had done nothing more than read her application form and speak to her on the phone - that au pair was good, but only by luck!).

However, for about 10 days now I've been checking in twice a day, sending messages to girls (I'm probably pushing 100 messages now), and not really getting anywhere with anyone. Most of my messages go ignored. We got as far as a phone interview with one who sounded lovely, but then it transpired that there was a really messy backstory about why she wanted to come to the UK and we decided we couldn't risk being involved (it was illegal...).

I think our profile is very 'honest' as we have four young kids and our house is busy BUT we're clear that the max hours per week will be 30 (which is in line with what APW says is 'normal') and we're offering £100 pocket money plus a weekly bus pass worth £15pw. Whilst APW suggest £80-£85. The room is honestly lovely (big converted attic space with exclusive use of new bathroom) - I wish I could go live up there. We never expect work at the weekend, and we can normally give the au pair at least one other day off in the week.

We live in Manchester - rather than London - which I genuinely think is a super city, and we live close to the city centre (15 mins on the bus) - but it seems so many au pairs just want to be in London.

Sorry - not quite sure what I'm looking for here - top tips perhaps?!

Look at the other jobs on APW - they are essentially your competition. If there are jobs in London with two kids and £130 a week (for example) then you're just not going to get any applications that week. £20 more, in London, for half the work.... see how the potential AP's mind will be working?

You need to up the wages or the perks and sell Manchester hard.

The four kids would put me off if I were an au pair, I'm afraid - having to manage the behaviour of four small children would be exhausting, and having to oversee getting dressed in the morning and ready for bed at night, including (it seems) supervising bath time...

Read any thread on MN to find out how bath and bed time finishes off most parents of two kids, never mind a young au pair (without the parental authority) trying to wrangle four!

And also, the bus pass not a great perk compared to, say, cinema pass, mobile paid for, gym membership, etc. In fact, I'd have thought - given you live 15 minutes outside the city - the bus pass should be a given and another perk offered as well as that?

Reverse the situation and ask yourself what you would want for what you are asking. Personally I think it's a big ask with four children, lots of au pairs can earn that or s bit less for looking after one or two children. In all honesty you need a nanny, not an au pair.

Au pair world might be saying that's enough but that is a huge ask for so little money - my friend pays £120, plus use of a car, both kids in school and they paid flights home at Christmas as well as the beginning. 4 kids will be very off putting

Good luck I hope you find someone, it must be tricky. I have a few doubts when I have to babysit 4 children so for a young woman to have to care for them daily must be a daunting task! I definitely think gym membership etc would be more of a hook. Could you get a mother's help again if that worked well before?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3499082-To-ask-if-you-realise-au-pairs-are-seriously-under-threat-after-Brexit

I was an au pair in a very cheap European city in 2015 and received 70euros pw/my language classes (about 260pm)/transport card/phone contract in exchange for afterschool childcare for 3 kids 3/5/7. I also received 50euros pm for snacks/toiletries/groceries just for me.
It worked out as 20 hours pw and I never had to ‘make up’ my hours to the 30 APW mentions. I had a big group of au pair friends, and everyone knew who had the families that really squeezed every minute from their au pair, as they were also always ridiculously underpaid and worked awkward times.

Agree with PP that the £85pw recommended by APW is unrealistic now.

We are in London and our last au pair was paid £125/pw (rising to £150 after a year) plus mobile and Travelcard for looking after one child, and no housework.

When we were looking more recently for two children, most au pairs wanted at least £120/£130 a week with mobile contract and travel card as a minimum - we ended up going for a part-time nanny since the cost was similar for what we actually needed.

Brexit has definitely had an impact - we found our au pair before the EU referendum and had hundreds of applications within a few days. Last time we only had a handful of applicants, and because of the reduced supply they could generally afford to be choosier about pay, extras etc.

The odds are against you. Four children is a lot. I can't imagine the amount of noise generated by the four of them chatting during dinner. That's enough to put off anyone who is not really keen on children.

Most aupairs want an easy life in a nice city while they improve their English. I don't think Manchester is a problem, but the money you are offering, the 4 children and Brexit don't make your offer very attractive

Of course 4 children is more work than 2 children! Not sure how you can think it isn’t?

I thought that 30 hours with four children is pretty much full time. I think you need to offer at least £30 a week more, regardless of what the agency suggests. It has to be money and the number of children and your offer is not attractive enough.

I hate MN au pair threads because they are invariably full of people who have no idea about the au pair deal and come on to scream “slave wages”.

Au pairs get rent, food and all bills paid by host family. The £100 is put spending money on top of that. It’s a pretty good deal for a hound person on their year abroad.

OP - we have had au pairs for many years. The market at the moment is awful, Brexit has decimated EU applications which means the only other countries you can legally hire from are Canada, Australia and NZ. There are applicants from those countries but fewer and now they are on huge demand. TBH I am not sure tinkering with your hours or pay will help much.

Do you advertise the opportunity to Skype your previous au pairs? We always do and it helps a lot as they can get the “inside” scoop on you and feel safer in their choice.

Also 30 hours is high. I’ve always thought 25 was upper limit for UK au pairs.

Good luck with your search.

Interesting article www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/30/au-pairs-servants-legal-rights-government

But this thread is why they scream ‘slave labour’!!!! We have au pairs so we also understand how it works but we do it fairly!

I have been an au pair in my younger years .

I got my role via Au Pair world .

It's the number of kids sorry .

More work for the same money as people who have 1-2 children .

Also Brexit .

Also you said you'd want them to get on with non childcare related things .

That's not what an au pair is really for .

For all of my roles the families needed me to have the children 10-4 M-F , cook their meals and put the kids laundry on .

You are there as a big sister not a housekeeper/Nanny

I'm in London and pay 130 pw for one school aged child, who is pretty self-sufficient. Officially 25 hours but in practice less as he walks to/from school alone.

AP World guidance on salary is very out of date.

I think it’s the hours and number of children. Your job will look harder than most others advertised.

I do t think it’s a pay issue. We pay £110 in London plus room, bills food and board for 25 hours looking after three kids and a dog. That seems pretty standard around here and given local rents it’s a package worth over £800 a month.

Au pairs get rent, food and all bills paid by host family. The £100 is put spending money on top of that. It’s a pretty good deal for a hound person on their year abroad

Except in OP's case it isn't because after the OP has done FT childcare, housework, school pickups, dinner, homework, bath + bed the au pair will not have the energy to use the £15 'bonus' travel card to go anywhere as she will be so exhausted. It really doesn't matter how nice the bedroom is.

after the au pair* has done...

I think the £600 on an agency went on more than a read of an application form and a phone call. Presumably the agency spent years formulating the application form and interview questions, building up a reputation that made the au pairs feel they were signing up for something safe, respectable and legit. They do a screening process so they don't get casual applicants with no intention of doing the job. And they presumably advertise somewhere more effective than APW.

Pay the money.

It's really not comparable to hiring a nanny because of the room, board etc -
It’s exactly like a live in nanny.
Reduce the hours to 25, no “ getting on with other stuff” , up money to £150 and add in a giffgaff sim.
You expecting to much and minimising the amount of work with four children.

The problem is you're competing with lots of families who have fewer kids (and all of whom are school age).

All of the local families I know in London who have an au pair have fewer kids, all kids are school age and they pay more than £100.

Even then they haven't found it particularly easy to find a good au pair and they've varied.

Twenty odd years ago I was a nanny/mothers help. I had my own flat, bills paid, use of car. I looked after two children for 7 hours a day plus an evening of babysitting. My tasks were similar to those you are expecting of the au pair. I was paid £100 a week THEN, plus my employer paid my tax and NI.

I think you need a Nanny and to pay accordingly.