URGENT advice re employing FT live out Nanny please!!

[jahlucian]

Hi everyone,

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as my head is going to explode!! I'll try and keep it short... I was due to start a new job in March but was told the day before Christmas eve that the start date will now be 19/1 or I lose the job! I had already touched base with an agency and was planning on starting the process after new years. I now have 3 weeks to hire a nanny for the first time and it's a mind field!!

The job is Mon-Fri, 7am to 5pm until June and then shift work thereafter but still 50hrs per week. I'm based in Colchester Essex and the care is for three children; 6 year old at school and 2&4 yr old attend preschool two afternoons a week. I posted the pay as £8-10 ph depending on exp/qualifications...

I've interviewed two people so far (who I found via childcare.co.uk and nannyjobs) and have one more tomorrow from the agency. The main issues I have is with pay, duties, contracts and insurance.

I have decided to use PAYEforNannies for payroll but I'm unsure about the following;

• Now that I understand I need to do gross pay to avoid any surprises is what I'm offering reasonable?
• Do I need to know their tax code to get a more accurate idea of what i'll be paying gross to meet their net expectation?
• Who should I use to draw up contracts, payroll company?
• Fuel allowances, what is the standard way?
• Nursery duties - I'd like her to maintain children's area (bedrooms, playroom), prepare meals, and do their laundry and ironing.
• What insurance do I need to take out as an employer?

Again sorry for the essay but any information or advice would be so so appreciated!!!

I would suggest offering £10 gross. That is around £8 net for someone working fulltime. That then gives you room to increase after a while, such as when changing the work schedule.

The tax code is not important as long as you agree a Gross wage. Do not meet their Net expectation. Offer salary as gross. Guide them to www.mranchovy.com/calc so they can see what that may be takehome.

Can do contract yourself or use payroll agency. Complex bit of yoyr contract will be to do with the change in working hours, keeping number of hours per week the same helps but you need someone who does not mind the change in start/finish time.

45p per mile for work miles. All trips logged. Submitted to you monthly for payment.

You need Employers Liability Insurance. Check your Home Contents insurance policy, it may be included or an added extra. Companies like www.mortonmichel.com can sell you a policy if your home insurer does not provide.

Check what car nanny drives - how will they fit all 3 children in?

Thank you Nannynick!

In terms of pay is more weight given to qualifications or experience? The two ladies I've meet are more mature ladies - 41 and 55 but vary in what they bring to the table. The first lady has more experience but not much by way of formal qualification but is Ofstead registered etc. Whilst the second lady has a level 3 CACHE but little experience in being a nanny but again is Ofstead registered...

As I'm working against the clock and this is a first for me, doing the contract via payroll may be the best option. I know this is an additional service to the annual payroll cost but do you what the average is, so I can decide who to use?

Both nannies have a car big enough for all the car/boosters and have business use on their insurance policies.

Thank you for the advice re fuel and insurance - very helpful!

If the 41 is ofsted reg then she must have done the basic skills course as a qual

How long has 51 been nannying?

Is she a fit elder lady capable of looking after 3 under 6?

Have either had 3 children?

Talk to refs

Who do you like?

Blondeshavemorefun it's the 55 yr old that isn't as qualified. She has the basics yes. She has 3 adult children and 3 grandchildren a similar age to my own. Her last position ended this year and was for a 14 month old and the previous was 4.5 and 7 yrs. She's been nannying since 1995.

The second lady who is currently my preference is qualified, no children of her own. Experience from niece/nephew and from placements during course. However she currently works in schools with children SEN and cares for a young people with complex needs. My preference for her is more based on instinct - when talking about discipline ect, I felt we were on the same page. Nanny no.1 was very on the fence when I asked her scenario type questions - almost as though she was saying what she thought I wanted to hear as opposed to her own beliefs... I expect a nanny to take on board my currents routines and values but to be clear on their own stance too...

To be honest if older nanny has had three children of her own and been working as a nanny for 9 years I would be inclined to go with her.
The lady without children may find it difficult working as a nanny. It is not the same as being in a school situation where other adults are present or can be called to assist. Also can be a lonely job nannying - how will she cope with that aspect?
A mother of three will be used to multi tasking.
Have a second interview with each candidate with the children present.
Discuss fully how you disapline your children. Obviously a nanny would never use corporal punishment ;even if you do ,but otherwise she should follow your methods. If she finds they are not working she can come back to you.
As Blonds said to be Ofsted Registered a nanny needs a basic skills course, paediatric first aid and insurance.
Don't panic add a probationary notice period in the contract and then if it doesn't work you can give notice and maybe second candidate will still be free. Have back up childcare in place for this time as nanny may give notice if the job is not what she was expecting.

Thank you Florence. I know what you mean about Nanny1 - at the outset I always said I value experience over qualifications and whilst I was impressed by the years of experience, it just didn't feel right. I requested the first interviews at their home to get a better of them hygiene etc so I had expected it to be a bit more comfortable for them too. But she just seemed really nervous - fleeting eye contact at times...

Nanny2 has had one sole charge position but the lady has moved back to her home country and isn't available for references. That was 8 months for an 8 month old and 7yr old. In regards to being lonely etc she was very proactive in asking me questions. For example she said she has a friend that nanny's and would I be comfortable with play dates with her charges. Whereas nanny 1 when asked if she had any questions for me, said any questions she has would only be relevant if and when she was offered the job so will wait until the second interview...

I now have two interviews from the agency one for today and tomorrow but need to make a decision sooner rather than later to get payroll, tax credits in place to avoid a fine. Also nanny 2 has had her renewal notice for ofstead and if she doesn't renew by the 31st she has to reapply!!

I wouldn't be rushed.
Sounds like you are not comfortable with nanny one so go with your 'gut instinct ' and don't employ her.
Nanny 2 needing to renew Ofsted is a red herring IMO. I'm Ofsted registered and would renew anyway if job hunting;as makes me more employable. I pay the cost myself, as I do First Aid. Even for temporary babysitting having Ofsted Registration is a plus to parents as they perceive you as more professional.
You have two more candidate to see so that's good.

You requested interview at the nannies home?

This would make me uneasy and tbh feel judged on where/how I live

You interviewed the nannies in their own homes? I've never come across that in my years of nannying and I'm not sure how I'd feel about it if it was asked of me

Nanny 1 doesn't sound right for you, it's usually wise to go with your gut instinct. But it may be worth seeing what she's like at a 2nd interview in your home and see how she is with the children. maybe she was worried that you were judging her home and hygiene standards??? But also the comment about questions only being relevant if she was offered the job seems a bit strange.

In this day and age of email, I'm surprised that nanny 2 cannot provide a reference for her only sole charge position - I'd dig a bit deeper on that one if I were you.

Maybe you'll have a better candidate from the agency interviews you have lined up.

I agree an interview at nannies home would be unnerving and very unusual.

Gut instint is important. Who you can get along with is important. Experience of all kinds count.
The worry would be how lonely someone would be who is used to working with other adults around, though everyone starts somewhere. If you look further back in their work history, have they worked alone?

If someone required to interview me in my home, I would tell them that I am not the nanny they need and would not even bother having an interview. That's insane, I have never heard that!

Hi

I know a nanny whose job has just fallen through in the Colchester area. Will pm you

Agree with other posters interviewing at the Nanny's home is strange. I too would be uncomfortable with that as I have a small house and would feel judged. Also have small dog who would bark etc.
Don't think you can tell how hygienic a person is either. They no doubt have tidied up for your visit. Having working is many households I can tell you looking in the fridge is the biggest clue. A dirty fridge is not good. I often wished I could inspect the employers fridge at the interview :))

I use PAYEfornannies and they are great - have handled issues of sick pay and changing nanny with no problem - they are half the price of nanny tax. Available on the phone til 9pm which is very useful. They will give you a standard contract and for an extra £20 per year you have access to their employment lawyer should you need them.

Would agree that request to interview at home may have put them off and wouldn't advise this in the future.

FWIW £10 per hour net is going rate where I am (N London) - works out more like £12 per hour gross for full time I would think - I wonder if £10 per hour gross may be a little low? But you need to ask locally.

Re: Nanny 2

• I don't get why the previous employer leaving the country means they cannot give a reference? This would be a problem for me. I would want to phone the previous employer, even if it were an international call!
• is she available to start work in Jan? Does she not have a notice period at school?

Thank you for responding everyone!

In regards to the interview at nanny's home as I said it was partly to make them feel more comfortable and to get a better feel for them as a person. There are obviously ways about going about these things but I am going in blind with no previous experience and just did what I felt was best at the time even if it is a bit taboo.

Florence you mention the renewal of Ofsted being a red herring - can I ask why? I understand its £103 to renew and that the cost is normally that of the employer as they get the majority of the benefits, so if between jobs at first glance it made sense...

Greenfizzywater thank you for that info - really useful! The rate of pay was recommended by the agency and from I can tell seems about right for North Essex but open to hearing other views.

Chewbecca that's a very valid point re the reference! Her current school job is a zero hours contract and the caring for the young person is at night, so for the interim won't be a problem as the first 6 month she'll finish at 5pm.

Thanks DearGirl, I've spoke to her.

Can ask everyone if they operate on flat rate for overnight or continue hourly - bearing in mind children sleep through but and nanny would be asleep but is obviously still at work?

Overnight could be afixed rate for say 12-6 but up to you to agree with them something reasonable.

A lot of jobs want Ofsted Registered nannies so for your nanny to let it lapse would IMO be shortsighted.
It is a difficult process when you first apply take 12 plus weeks. Where as renewing is simple , pay the fee and done.

Hope you don't mind me joining the debate here. I am in a similar situation and have a question about sick pay, holiday pay and maternity pay. Would a nanny normally expect these to be covered by the employing family?

Yes a nanny would expect all the usual employment rights that come in any other job. It also includes a pension in 2017/18 (See table 2 on this page for new employers).

We used Paye for Nannies and I have been very happy with their service, including using their contract template (which I amended slightly to our circumstances) and them dealing with my nanny's maternity pay.

If your nanny payroll service offers legal advice as part of the fee then you should use their employment contract.

You absolutely must get references. Overseas is no excuse - email, Skype? Our first nanny said she left her previous job when her employer's mother came to live with the family. In fact nanny walked out, as a result of which her charges' granny had to come as emergency cover. By the time we found out nanny was about to start and we went ahead anyway. In retrospect she turned out to be a resoundingly average nanny and it was fantastic for all concerned when she went on maternity leave after a year and never came back. Once you have offered conditional on references you need to prioritise talking to the referees.