Please help! I've given my childminder 4 weeks notice and she mentioned to me that I have to pay her 3 weeks holiday?!

[unicorn86]

Hello, I'm sorry if this type of stuff is already discussed.

I told today my childminder that I'm planning to terminate my contract with her and I'll give her written notice tomorrow. I mentioned 30.08.14 as my daughter's last day in the nursery. She surprised me bad by telling me that I have to pay her 3 weeks for her holiday which starts 02.08.14 - 25.08.14. Me and my family are going abroad at 01.08.14 and we'll be back on 22.08.14. This childminder is too far from our new home so we decided to move the daughter somewhere locally. I thought as I give 4 weeks written notice as it is noticed in the contract that would be ok, but the childminder doesn't think so. My contract has started 26.09.13 and it is noticed that she can get 4 weeks paid off but on the other hand I've paid 2 weeks for her holidays over Christmas time and another single day on 23.05.14 . Now she asking me for paying for another 3 weeks holiday after termination of the contract on 30.07.14. Is she eligible to get payments for extra 3 weeks?

I'll attach scanned copy of my contract.
P.S: I can obviously upload up to 3 files, so I'll upload only the pages related to the case :)

I would think that if your notice period ends on 30th July, then you make no more payments after that.

You also mentioned 30th August though - do you want your child to go back to the CM between 26th August & 30th August? If so, then yes - I would expect you to have to pay for the holiday time if your contract states that the CM's holidays are payable.

This is completely normal with nurseries IME - you pay for your place 52 weeks in a year regardless of whether you are using it that week or not. Although, to be fair, my experience is with an actual nursery where childcare is still available even if your keyworker is on holiday!

Hopefully someone will be along shortly to advise you what is normal with a CM.

Not a legal person but...

You pay her weekly regardless of holiday.

You have paid her all weeks until the end of the contract. It is not your fault she did not take that four weeks before you terminated the contract.

If you terminated in may, it would seem ludicrous to get you to pay for Augusts holiday so this is no different.

Not sure tho.

If I understand correctly, you are intending to terminate the contract at the end of July, but still need care for a few days for the last week in august?

Most childminders I know you have to pay for times they don't have them - such as if you are away on holiday - as well as their 'holiday pay'.

Thanks for your fast response. I'm sorry that was just a mistake. I meant that 30.07.2014 is the last day when the child would visit the setting. As well as we have enrolled my daughter for another childminder in our area but she will start on 01.09.2014. Do you reckon that I shouldn't pay for that holiday which stands out after termination of the current contract?

If OP does need care for these odd days, they are out of contract if it is already terminated by this time. Otherwise the end date of the contract would need to be moved and yes you will have to pay.

I would expect that you should pay for the holiday prorata ie. if your dc has been there 10 months roughly 10/12 of the 4 weeks agreed (although you should probably work this out based on exact weeks used and round up the days). You would then deduct the 2 weeks one day (or does this include BHs which are extra) already accounted for.

I would expect to pay four weeks pro rata'd for the length of the contract, so 11/12s of four weeks, possibly minus the two weeks she had off at Xmas, unless that was 'your' holiday?

This is what would happen if she was an employee, but can't actually read the contract. Hopefully someone better with legal matters will be along soon!

I don't think you should pay.

Sorry, yeah, 10/12s.

but if you plan to book her until 30th august that would be another 4 weeks of allowance.

So if I've read and understood your OP correctly you are giving the CM 4 weeks notice and will no longer be using her service after the 30th July 2014? If that's the case then no, you don't owe her any holiday pay.

Yes your post sounds a bit confused. I can't read the pages you've posted, so this is based on your OP alone. (Am not a lawyer, layperson's view).

If you want her to take care of DD between 22.8 and 30.8 (or it will be 25.8 - 30.8, due to her absence) then whether you are giving notice now or not, the care arrangement doesn't end until 30.8. So it may be then that either

1. she expects you to pay for the child's place while you are away (this is fairly standard)
2. she expects you to pay for her holiday over a contract period from 26.9.13 - 30.8.14 Or a combination of the two.

If you are willing to terminate the contract now, then I would expect holiday would be pro rataed ie 26.9.13 - 28.7.14 (four weeks from today) which is 5/6 or 17 working days of holiday. So far you have paid 11.

I think the key question is whether you have to pay for times when you could've sent your child to the cm, but didn't - if so, the two weeks at Xmas won't be the cms 'holiday' time if you could've sent her but didn't.

Assuming a five day week, 20 x 10/12 = 16.67, which is more or less three five day weeks, so I suspect this is where she got the figure from.

If you give her 4 weeks notice I don't see how you ate liable forcangvfees after that.
Give her written notice and pay up till the end of your notice period and then no more.
I run a mursery. If my parents give me a months notice then thst is all they pay.

And yes, I'd expect it will be pro-rata'd.

Leaving aside the two weeks at christmas for the moment:

She is entitled to four weeks a year. The fact that she hasn't taken any already doesn't mean that she isn't entitled to them just because the contract has ended. When the contract ends doesn't have an impact on anything other than the number of days she is entitled to...she is still entitled to whatever proportion of holiday pay.

The issue, so far as I can see, is if the fifteen days already paid is actually part of the cms holiday entitlement, or if it's holiday the OP took and had to carry on paying to save Dd's place, ifykwim.

Link to childminder's contract

I definitely will not use my current childminder's service after 30.07.2014 and my daughter would start visiting the new childminder at 01.09.2014. Even if I have to pay her holidays at prorata basis, then rootyping must be right, because according to my calculations as well I've paid out 11 already but she's asking me for another 3 weeks (15 days). I think she just try to fool me...

Did you choose to not use the cm for the two weeks at Xmas and the odd day in May? Ie was the cm still available for you to use?

Assuming that the 4 weeks paid holiday should be "earned" over a year, given that you'll have used her services for 45 out of 52 weeks (roughly 85%) she'd be "entitled" to 17 days off in that period. She's had 11, so the absolute maximum she'd be due is 6 days. And I can't see how she can possibly expect to be paid holidays after your contract ends!

I note she's holding a deposit equal to a week's pay. Let her keep that and tell her to go whistle for any extra.

It depends if the eleven days IS the cms holiday though - looking at the charges for absence, if it's simply that the OP had time off work and chose not to send her child, it is chargeable at £18 per hour and won't count towards the childminders four week holiday entitlement.

Those two weeks over Christmas were just because she went off for that time. Actually I was quite busy over that time as I am domestic cleaner and I couldn't event take a brake apart of Christmas eve and New year's day. My husband had to ask his boss to let him take his holiday longer so he was the babysitter at home at that time. 23.05.2014 she went abroad so that's why we had to pay her holiday. You are quite right about my deposit. The amount is one weekly payment.

She won't be paying for holidays after the contract ends, she'll be paying for holiday accrued whilst the contract was in place. Any taken will be deducted from this amount, it just depends if the times the cm wasn't used so far was due to the cm taking holiday, or the OP not using the cm.

Ah, then it sounds like it is her holiday she's taken, in that case, she is owed the six days or so at the £18 rate

Workers are entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday per year. However, that's a bit of a red herring since I'd be staggered (especially since I've read the contract) that she is a worker. You are not her employer if she's providing childminding services from her own home to yours and other children, you are her client. Regardless of what she's taken so far, pro rata shares etc, this is a commercial arrangement. You are giving her four weeks' notice and there your liability ends. No doubt she's pissed off that she's not getting paid as much for her holiday but unfortunately that's life.

She's not a worker, but she does have a contract clearly stating her holiday entitlement, signed by OP.

She is most certainly bound, and can be held liable by the terms of that contract, however the cm seems to be misinterpreting the contract or forgetting that she's already had the 11 days of, so her holiday entitlement is reduced accordingly.

As you are going on holiday yourself on 1st August, your notice period can not include that date. Giving written notice tomorrow, does not include that date, so I can't see any problem.

Refuse to pay any more than the 4 week notice period. Offer what they already have as a deposit as a goodwill gesture.

Then await their counter offer. If they take it through small claims they will need to prove the money is owed and the court will expect there to have been some negotiation. So by offering that she keeps the deposit, you are negotiating.

Not clear about about what fee she would be wanting during her holiday time, the contract seems to mention a daily rate and a rate for when childminder is off. I guess it would be the 'childminder off' rate, so the 180 would cover 10 days of those 3 weeks she is wanting, so is a good offer to settle things in my view.