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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

It is illegal to pay a friend to look after DD if she's not registered? Really???

73 replies

spekulatius · 11/02/2013 23:24

I was looking on council's website under childcare for more info re childcare in general and it said the following:

"By law, you must be registered with Ofsted (The Office For Standards in Education), if you are being paid or rewarded to look after other people's child(ren) in your own home."

Does that mean I can't ask a friend to look after DD (will be 9 months by then) when I go back to work (would only be for 2 mornings anyway) and pay her? Really???

I would rather leave her with a friend who loves her anyway than with a complete stranger! And she would be the only child under 12 so would get more attention.

OP posts:

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TheMightyLois · 11/02/2013 23:26

Yep. Depends how many hours its for though. I can't remember the numbers but I'm sure someone will be along in a bit to clarify

How many hours are you going to be working?

Flisspaps · 11/02/2013 23:33

Yes, if it is in your home, for more tha 2 hours.

Ofsted do a fact sheet: here which details how you can thank your friend but stay within the law. I registered as a CM to look after my friend's daughter.

Original poster

spekulatius · 11/02/2013 23:35

I work 37.5 hours but my husband would have her as well so only need somebody for 2 half days 7-2 and maybe a babysitter one evening 6.30-9.30. Not sure if we should ask someone else for the evening or stick to same persons as not to confuse baby? Not sure.

OP posts:

Flisspaps · 11/02/2013 23:38

You'd probably struggle to get someone who'd be willing to do the 7-2 and then an evening shift too.

You'd be better with a babysitter anyway in the evening surely, so DD is home in her own bed? CMs work from their own homes, not in the child's home.

Flisspaps · 11/02/2013 23:40

Sorry - that first line of my first post should read if it is in her home for more than two hours.

In your home would make her a nanny, and that'd make you liable for sorting and paying her tax!

nannynick · 11/02/2013 23:42

Ofsted: Registration Not Required factsheet is also worth a read.

The Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) Order 2010 - the legislation with regard to having a friend provide care.

The problem in your case I think is Payment and the place that care is provided. If your friend came to home home, then they would be a nanny and you could pay them as an employee.

OutragedFromLeeds · 11/02/2013 23:44

You can pay an unregistered friend to look after your DD, but it needs to be in your home. She is able to look after your DD in her own home for up to 2 hours a day I think without registering.

So, if your friend's children are all 12+ and at school, you could drop DD at her house for 7am, she can be there to see her kids off to school at 8:30am and then head over to your house until 2pm. You would be employing her as a nanny and would need to sort tax/NI.

wannaBe · 11/02/2013 23:46

I'd do it anyway. who's going to know?

Original poster

spekulatius · 11/02/2013 23:50

My plan was for friend to have her at her house 7-2 twice a week and then someone come to our house one evening, like Flisspaps said so that she can be settled in bed (though hopefully still be awake when I came so I an get a cuddle. I'm sure it wouldnt be too difficult to find a babysitter. Don't want to do something illegal but also don't want to complicate things. My friend is a SAHM and loves babys so she is more than happy to look after her, not as a business. I'll have a look at those documents,thanks.

OP posts:

Original poster

spekulatius · 11/02/2013 23:51

WannaBe, that is what I thought as well as it won't be enough hours to pay tax anyway.

OP posts:

Original poster

spekulatius · 12/02/2013 00:04

Basically none of the exemptions apply as it's more than 2 hours a day (doesn't matter who's house it is apparently) so we can't pay her or buy groceries but could pay for their petrol or cloths or holidays? I think that's what it means "money or money's worth".

It's just that my husband and I think looking after a baby is hard work, surely we should show appreciation even though my friend would probably do it for free.

OP posts:

OutragedFromLeeds · 12/02/2013 00:13

It does matter whose house it is. Nannies do not need to be registered, if you employ her as a nanny she does not need to be registered (though if she is you can use childcare vouchers to pay her).

Original poster

spekulatius · 12/02/2013 00:24

I see what u mean. Childminder v Nanny. I wouldn't have to pay NI/tax for her though, would I? It's only 14 hours a week. Does everybody get childcare vouchers? All very new to me, sorry.

OP posts:

OutragedFromLeeds · 12/02/2013 00:55

If she was a nanny then you would be responsible for her tax/NI and employers NI, but you would only have to pay that if she was earning over the tax-free allowance. If she's under that then I'm not sure what you do tbh, I think maybe you have to register somewhere, but don't actually pay any tax/NI unless she goes over the threshold. You need MrA.

Childcare vouchers will be from your workplace, it's a salary sacrifice scheme. I think most, but not all, employers offer them, both you and DH would be able to get them (if your employer offers them). Have a look here. Your friend would need to be registered with Ofsted as a nanny though.

nannynick · 12/02/2013 08:21

How much would you be considering paying them and do you know if they have any other income -I would guess not as a SAHM but you never know, not of pension age are they?

nannynick · 12/02/2013 08:23

Childcare vouchers can only be used for registered/approved care, so your friend would need to register as a childminder, or nanny. It will complicate things in my view as your friend would need to do training and have insurance.

Original poster

spekulatius · 12/02/2013 08:51

Thought I would pay her some what cm charge here. They usually charge £3.50-4.00. She's about 40, def not pension age. Yes I don't think it would be worth for her to register as she's not doing it as an income and would only have my DD. Thought it would be a straight forward thing!

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MrAnchovy · 12/02/2013 09:03

If you want to use childcare vouchers she will have to be registered (as either a childminder or a nanny).

"Money or money's worth" only includes money and things that can be used as money so you CAN pay an unregistered friend in groceries, but you cannot give her Waitrose vouchers or let her do an online Tesco order and pay for it yourself.

If she works in your home she will be your employee. You will have to operate PAYE if she already has another job or if you pay her £107 or more in any week; you must have Employers Liability Insurance which may be included with your household insurance but if it isn't it can be difficult and/or expensive to arrange separately.

MrAnchovy · 12/02/2013 09:05

Oh if she is your employee you must pay at least National Minimum Wage (£6.19ph), give 5.6 weeks paid holiday etc.

nannynick · 12/02/2013 09:19

Is she really wanting to commit to doing the times you need every week? What if she has somewhere to go, she may need to let you down with a couple of days notice or less.

Why pay at all. How about just being friends, she helps you out, you help her out. Does she have a garden, are you good with plants? Does she like fancy restaurants, could you take her out for evening meal on occasion?

Original poster

spekulatius · 12/02/2013 10:37

Well it seems to be getting complicated. Def don't want to do the nanny option. I'll have to talk to her, maybe she can think of something else. Or if not find a really nice registered cm.

OP posts:

Xenia · 12/02/2013 10:46

It is not true that everyone working in your home is an employee. I have a BT man coming today who is not. I have a genuinely self employed cleaner who is not. I have men coming in to cut trees sometimes.

Look on the HMRC website about what makes someone an employee. If you get her to come to your house for these short and occasional hours she may be self employed and if she is paid under the single person allowance - very very likely then even if she is an employee then there will be no tax and under NI levels no NI.

The simple answer to your question is if she comes to your house like any other babysitter which countless mumsnetters will have regularly are not employees and are allowed to babysit in your own house even if it is every Friday 7 - 9pm week in week out.

MrAnchovy · 12/02/2013 11:59

"It is not true that everyone working in your home is an employee."

Nobody said that. But someone who you pay to look after your children in your home for 14 hours each week and has no other work is.

blueberryupsidedown · 12/02/2013 13:47

Am I wrong in thinking that only registered childminders can have Liability Insurance? and also they have special insurance on the car?

What about first aid? If you decide to go ahead with your friend, at least I would pay for her to have paediatric first aid course. THis is really, really important.

OutragedFromLeeds · 12/02/2013 13:57

Nannies are (or should be) insured. The nannies I know that drive for work have extra insurance as well.

First Aid is interesting. Do you think the OP and her DH have first aid training? I wonder what percentage of new parents do a paediatric fist aid course. I wonder how many people make their parents do a first aid course before they let them look after grandchildren.

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