Oh gawd, second problem with nanny this week...

[headfairy]

after the hitting incident we've established she didn't really hit him now one of the women at ds's nursery says she saw ds in town yesterday on his own in a toy shop. She asked him if mummy was around and he said he was with our nanny. The nursery woman looked around for our nanny and she was in a different shop the other side of the shopping centre. When the nursery worker told her about ds she continued shopping and about five minutes later went to collect ds from the nursery woman.

Ds is four and I'm really shocked our nanny just let him wander around the shoppin centre unsupervised while she shopped for herself, but how on earth do I approach our nanny to ask her about it without shopping the nursery worker? She was understandably cautious about telling me, she sees the nanny every day and if I ask the nanny about it, it's obvious it came from her.

your nanny left your ds alone in a shop while she went to do her own shopping in another shop

and you are dithering whether to say anything or fire her

talk to her first, obviously a nanny should never leave a child alone in a busy area with lots of other strangers about - but as like chipping i did wonder if she did this as you do - and didnt think you would mind

my memory is a little vague, why are you on your 3rd nanny in a year?

'She might take it out on ds? If there is any chance she would behave like that then surely she shouldn't be staying!'

There is absolutely no evidence for this other than FAB saying it might happen!

Yes, just pointing something out.

You only have to post something on here like 'AIBU to let DS, aged 4, play out the front' and you will get a lot of people saying it's ok and a lot of people saying it's not ok then another group saying depends on the area/who is there/whatever. There is no 'one' correct answer.

If she had left him happily there (as you do), he knew where she was and she'd gone to the shop opposite I would be fine with it. If she had gone half a dozen shops away or to another floor then no I wouldn't. Everyone has their own 'ok' or 'not ok' line. Nannies make judgment calls too - if it's a different one to the one you would make yourself & you aren't happy with it, then you need to talk about it.

People will post with their own situation in mind - how their 4yo behaves, how busy their shopping centre is, what the people there are like... all kinds of things.

Get rid this is one thing that got back to you there could be more.

Chipping - I get your point but a 4 year old, really? I can't imagine anyone leaving a 4 year old on their own in a shopping centre shop while they go to another.

shineon do you know if the nanny could see child? Do you know how far away the shop she was in was from the toy shop? Do you know how busy it was? Do you know if she'd asked the person in the toy shop to just keep an eye on him while she popped over to the other shop for a minute? Truth is we don't really know in which 'way' he was left and so no can't be black and white.

You can't trust her now. Time to let her go.

The nursery worker didn't leave ds in the toy shop on his own to find the nanny, she went with ds to find the nanny. Ds did know where the nanny was, which makes me think she said to him I'll just be in this shop... But I'm still really uncomfortable with the whole thing.

blondes our first nanny left during her probationary period as she found a 5day job (we only need someone 3 days a week), our current nanny is the second one... I'd we got rid of her the next one would be our third.

chippingin and others... The nanny doesn't know I let ds go in to toyshops occasionally on his own while I stand at the entrance. We aren't having a good week at all!!!

Stupidly we don't have a formal contract with her. She's not formally qualified though she's been working as a nanny/au pair for ten years so she didn't ask for one. We should have pushed for one I guess. When I was interviewing she was the stand out candidate, her dd is two weeks older than my dd, she lives 10 mins walk from my house and is really flexible without costing the earth. I'm so disappointed this has happened.

I do need to get the full story though... I can't come down on her like a ton of bricks if ds ran off from her and she hadn't realised.

shiney the shop the nanny was in is directly opposite the one ds was in... Clear line of sight, probably about 10m across a walkway. But... She was at the back of the shop and her attention was elsewhere.

It's your responsibility as the employer to provide a contract - you have two months after employment starts to sort it out. It's not up to your employee to request one. Are you paying her legally?

I still don't understand - the nursery worker took ds to the nanny, and then the nanny went off shopping again leaving him with the nursery worker for another 5 minutes before collecting him?

From a legal perspective, I'd be pretty comfortable firing for gross misconduct, without notice, in such circs.

Get the story first, but TBH I cannot see any mitigating factors. She took the kind of risks she is paid not to take.

yes you should have pushed for a contract - but hindsight is a wonderful thing

what is your gut instinct?

I'm not sure it matters what shop she was in or how close it was really, if she was looking for something (tights) then she wasn't watching her charge. At 4 he could have been abducted or (more likely) wandered off and got lost.

I don't understand this either:

"I do need to get the full story though... I can't come down on her like a ton of bricks if ds ran off from her and she hadn't realised"

surely she should have noticed if he ran off immediately, because either she'd be holding his hand or he would be right next to her in her line of sight and she'd see him go? Either way she'd be gone if she was my childcare.

I think I must be the worst helicopter parent in the world

Headfairy - I would not be upset if she had said where she was going (as she did), if DS was happy to be in the toyshop (as he was) and she was that close. I would be fucked off completely and she would be out on her arse if she had not noticed him wandering off.

As I said before - everyone has their own idea of what is OK and what isn't OK for a specific 4yo in a specific place etc etc etc

You seem unsure - why not talk to her and see how you feel after that.

I look after three childen who are now 5 and 6,If I was out with them none of them would be allowed out of my sight ,I think that it doesnt matter what the mother does [maybe being a little lenient with them going further afield.]One of the main parts of my job is to keep them safe If one of mine had wandered into a toy shop my job is to go too,If I have to buy something elsewhere they would come with me .I think Id get the sack if mine were in a different shop to me.

Rita... It's all legal and above board of course. I do have a standard contract that I rather sheepishly suggested she have a look at and sign and she said it all looked fine but she never did sign it and we never filled it all in. Completely my fault, I was so bloody spineless. Won't happen again.

The problem is we can only afford £200 pw for 3 days, she was the stand out candidate, as you can imagine at that level of pay you don't get a lot of experience and she seemed so lovely, really at ease with the children and engaging with ds in such a lovely way plus she'd been caring for children in one capacity or another for 10 years, plus as a mother of a child the same age as dd I thought she would appreciate the challenges properly.

chippingin you're absolutely right. It's almost worse if she hadn't noticed ds had run off. I've just spoken to my mum and she says I need to tell her she can't take the children on any personal errands or shopping trips as she clearly can't keep an eye on them properly. She should stick to the park or soft play type things. She's also encouraged me to start looking elsewhere for a new nanny.

HF - I know I've said this before, but I have to say it again - your kids are georgous - I'd eat them on toast :) The new photos are great.

It's entirely up to you how you handle this, but I think it's good for kids to go and do 'normal' things - the same things you'd do if you were at home with them. So sometimes going into shops they don't want to go in or the supermarket/chemist/drycleaners etc - doing jobs around the house and all that kind of thing. I wouldn't tell her she can't do any of that. I also think your Mum's pov is a little short sighted. A similar thing could happen at a softplay if she leaves DS playing while she takes DD to get a clean nappy/to the toilet for example.

I think you like her, DS likes her (does DD?) but you have a difference of opinion - I don't think you need to throw the baby out with the bath water and start on another nanny who you don't know anything about. I think talking to this one is a much better idea. Look how quickly she dropped everything and came to make sure it was all OK re the other situation.

Is the £200 net or gross? Does she bring her DD with her?

Thing is she was buying tights for her not even something for you. At least when you stand by the entrance she cannot go out. Imagine if she had left the shop to find the nanny and got lost? Its not on.

chippingin why thank you so much [blushes]

What you're saying is much more in line with my line of thought... I don't think she's being wilfully negligent. I think because she's not formally trained it just hasn't occured to her what could happen. Maybe she's too young to remember Jamie Bulger? The kids do like her, both ds and dd are incredibly comfortable around her. She's been very good on the two occasions when dd has been ill, once being incredibly calm and taking dd to casualty when she had a temperature spike.

£200 pw is gross, 8.45-6.45. Her dd comes with her and they both have three meals when they're here. A nominal 6 weeks leave a year but in practice we haven't put any restrictions so far on leave. She hasn't taken the piss so we've let her have leave as and when she wants it. All told I guess she'll have about 8 weeks this year (which includes about 3weeks we've taken which I wouldn't dream of making her take as unpaid)

from your last comment, i say talk to her, enforce the seriousness of that she doesnt leave ds or dd alone and try and carry on - if you still trust her, and seems you do

if you dont then let her go, once trust has gone/been broken then it will never work out

shiney despite what happened yesterday I still don't believe she hit ds... I'm sure that was ds's imagination going in to overtime.

I know no one should fuck about with these things, I wouldn't either... I want to gauge her reaction when I lay down the law with her. I'm going to make it clear this is the one and only time I'm going to tell her. If it happens again she's out the door.