Quick query re: babysitting/childminder pay

[petaluma]

My lovely neighbour, who looks after my ds when we go to work, is looking after my ds tomorrow from lunchtime, an overnight stay at hers and then until we pick him up the following lunchtime.

For when we're at work, we pay her £8 an hour. Because we don't employ her as such, she does the odd baby sitting evening for the same money. Because this is the first time she has had him to stay, it is a cross between a favour and something more formal IYSWIM
I know we should have talked money earlier, but what do you this is reasonable payment for the time, say it's 24 hours? £8 an hour blanket payment for the whole time because she's taking responsibility for him regardless of sleep time? Or a lower figure, since he 'll be asleep for a lot of that period? It s not that I begrudge the full £8 hour payment at all, but it amounts to quite a high figure and she might be embarrassed at us paying her that, considering, ds will be fitting in with her family arrangements, not like he does when she looks after him whilst we're at work

Any thoughts? Thanks
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Is she a registered childminer? if she is, then she should work out her own rates and bill you accordingly.
If not, then £8 sounds very expensive. I hope she is declaring her income to the taxman.

I think you need to just ask exactly what rate shw wants to be paid,

If she cares for him regularly and you have an arrangement that works for you both and you seem to be ok about paying a bit more for a one off favour, so all sounds fine, just need to ask how much.

Most nannies charge their normal rate til about midnight, then an overnight fee of £30-50, then normal rate again from when the child is due to wake. That's assuming he is old enough to sleep through the night.

I agree with asking her though - she may be seeing the overnight as a favour and not expecting payment for when he is sleeping, or she could be expecting her full rate for the whole time!

Does she look after him at hers when you're at work? If she does she needs to register as a Childminder as what she is doing is illegal if shes doing it for more than 2 hours a day for payment and your ds is under 8.

If she does it at yours fair enough, and that seems a reasonable rate for a nanny, but an overnight at hers would be classed as childminding if she gets paid for it not babysitting and registered childminders cannot offer this at their homes without being registered for overnight care which not all are.

I agree with NannyBeth that We don`t usually charge our full fee for the night tme ,I charge from when the child wakes till 12 usual fee £8 and then £40 for the night .Generally I charge £150 for 24 hours ,although I know nannies who charge £200,Ask her how much she wants.

I would ask he what she wants def not eight pound an hour all the way through. I charge the same as eurycantha, however if I was doing it in my own home probably would do it as a favour.

Thanks for all your input. Dh and I agreed with what you suggested and that £150 was fair for what turned out to be about 25 hours - she is so flexible, so brilliant and looks after ds in our house (sleeping in our spare room) that we don't want to take advantage of her good nature. We won't do it often too so as extravagant as it perhaps is, we know we can always rely on her. Dc2 is due too soon, so, having no family nearby to help out, she has said she will be on call 24/7 for the weeks leading up to and beyond my due date - and that will be a 'favour', unless it stops her doing her temping job. Plus, as lovely as any of our family may be, and however willing, even if they lived nearer, they would not be able to handle our active ds as well as she can. We can trust her to just walk in to our house, know where everything is, ds's routine, etc, without a second thought.

She is never money grasping and always hates discussing payment. She has done ad hoc last minute favours for us and refused any payment so it's all swings and roundabouts (pardon the pun) as far as we're concerned.

As for your other comments, she is a self employed qualified nursery nurse who is in high demand as a temp when we don't need her so she never wants holiday pay or anything formal like that. She doesn't want to be a childminder who uses her own home, so being a neighbour, it suits us and her brilliantly as she bases herself in our house, much like a live out nanny, but who also just happens to be a friend. We knew her for two years before we had ds so the risk of employing a friend was minimal. My ds adores her, as does the rest of her family adore him, so we've gained a kind of surrogate extended family!

Mmmm you are on dodgy ground re: not employing her. Even if she doesn't want it the law may require it.

Lucky you she sounds brilliant.

Fraktious - not for ad hoc care. You can be a self employed nanny, it's just not very common. Temp nannies are often self employed, and ad hoc nannies also. Not really feasible for people to do all the necessary paperwork for the odd day here and there.

Basically, it boils down to the fact she is a neighbour, who happens to be a friend, who also happens to be able to look after our ds, but couldn't do it for no pay as she has to make a living.

We're fully aware of the risk we take in doing this but she's a decent human being and ds loves her to pieces, and he her. Call me naive, but that is the best employment protection I can think of.

I agree why should we allow the goverment to interfer with what is a private arangement between friends, OK there might not be insurance, but would we expect to sue our beighbours or friends if our child got injured playing in their garden or whatever. Maybe we are big enough and ugly enough to figure out what works for us ourselves sometimes. My mum did what would be classed as childminding now for one of my schoolfriends mums, now she would be expected to register and pay etc for what was a perfectly sensible arrangement.

I say dodgy because it depends how ad hoc it is. I know temps can be SE, been there and done it myself, but whilst the OP and her DH are at work sounds considerably more frequent and ongoing than the odd day here and there or a couple of weeks over the school hols.

It's not about insurance, that's the risk the neighbour takes. It's not even about tax if she's SE and declares it. The biggest sticking point is NI, specifically employer's NI, which the OP is evading.