how do we handle this? Potential nanny dishonesty

[HalfPastSeven]

Our nanny has been with us for years. She is great with the children and generally lovely. However, it looks like she may have been using "expenses" money for herself. Because she has been with us so long, we stopped checking receipts etc ages ago.

She has a card for one of our bank accounts which does not have loads of money in it, but has more than she needs for expenses (some other bills get paid out of that account). She is supposed to use that for expenses (e.g. when she buys food or takes the DC for trips etc)

Looking at the last couple of bank statements, it looks like she has been spending loads and I just can't understand what it is going on.

Obviously if she has been dishonest we wil have to let her go instantly and wont be abel to give her a reference. I feel quite sick about the whole thing.

What do you think is the best way to handle this - I dont want to accuse her of theft straight out just in case it is genuine expenses (although I find it hard to see that it could be) or if there has been a fraud on the account (although it is mainly local cash withdrawals ).

I do not use the account except for emergencies and nanny has DH's card.

Not enough comunication going on OP
She is your employee and you should handle things in a professional manner from the start and always...I know some people feel embarassed talking about money, but if you employ someone who have access to your money than you should be very especific how and where it is spent.
I think also, if she was more experienced or 'clever' she would keep recepts or een a little notebook with all her expenses down - so in case she was innocent - she could protect herself in case of fraud or employer's bad memory (paid the cleaner once? twice?) or lack of organization...

I wanted a couple of days to see how I feel about her , but if I decide I can't take the DH approach I will get an updated statement and make her go through the last week in the way suggested.

Based on what though, assumptions?

Given the communication issues with 'confronting' her [which are all on you and your DHs part] I can see how this mess has happened.

I actually feel sorry for your nanny here, you really need to be straight with her and let her state her case [if there even is one]

If you sack her over this without any proof or proper further investigation she would quite possibly win if she went for unfair dismissal.

so over the past few weeks/months over £800 cash has been withdrawn and no real explanation

but from what you have said she has agreed she took the money out of the bank - ie so not fraud

what i dont get is why she doesnt use the card as a debit card and use it to pay for stuff

things do add up - i have a works credit card and i can fill up works car for £120 if car very thirsty and this will last 7/10days depending what they do at the weekend

food shopping adds up- trips to soft play areas - i spent £35 the other day in getting 2 dc in and a silly boxed sandwich lunch

maybe you need to get a card that you cant get cash out of and just use it as a debit card and you will see excalty where money get spent

You cannot just sack her. You can follow your disciplinary procedure or you can make her redundant, which means changing the job significantly enough that she won't want it when offered and paying her redundancy.

Disciplinary would be tricky IMO. What are your grounds? Suspicion of theft? Being irresponsible with your money despite you not giving strict guidelines and insisting on receipts? Plus it probably wouldn't go further than a warning.

OP, in your situation, I would now check the wording of employment contract and move to written warning if you can do so. I would immediately cancel card even though you now have it, you have totally compromised it as a third party has the card details and cvc details. Next, I would reinstate a kitty/expense book/receipts system. Finally, I would have a plan B ready for back up cover if the combination of written warning and reinstatement of checks and balances might cause your nanny to look for another job. Good luck.

Waiting another couple of days to see how you feel is a bad plan as you need to act now. You and dh are not being good bosses because you Both
have a problem with direct communication! Just ask her how the money was spent.

I would ask her directly. For all you know, she could be under enormous pressure from elsewhere and be needing you to take charge and ask her outright. On the other hand, if she can't give you a direct reason for the use of the money then she needs to be gone because whether she's acting of her own volition or being forced into it, it could escalate and you don't know what other things in the home you could be putting at risk.

My gut reaction with a long-term nanny would be to help her though. You need to find out for certain that she took the money and why

i would support your DH's approach, it sounds very sensible to me and in everyone's interests. I don't know what you achieve by sacking her, except righting the betrayal you feel. It seems there's a strong case she abused the card but it's not crystal clear she was willfully stealing.
that said, i'm pretty sure my nanny's contract says we can sack her immediately if she steals. (worded more politely)
i am continually annoyed by our nanny taking our entire weekly kitty and pocketing it. (no receipts, no plausible explanations). i imagine she justifies it by paying her petrol out of it and picking up the odd pint of milk for us. so far we've decided not to say anything.

OP: Look, I can see why your DH handled it the way he did. I am sympathetic. There is a good argument against going in all guns blazing so to speak for the first chat.

I suspect you already know that you have to go back to her and clear things up, certainly if you're planning to dismiss her. Because of the way it sounds like the account was structured I think it would need to be some sort of confession of wrongdoing from her 'for evidence' if from your conversation you think there is no other explanation but stealing. I would be speaking to someone who know about employment law about next steps if she doesn't do this though.

Where the heck is Mr Anchovy anyway FFS?

I feel a bit sorry for your nanny
Maybe she expected you to say something because she knows how expensive things are getting. Maybe she was relieved to have the card taken off her because she didn't want the responsibility of paying cleaner and camps and you not remembering when you did/didn't ask her to. Maybe it is all innocent.
You can't just "decide how you feel about her" until you've outright asked her how the money was spent. You have not done that. You aren't being fair. At all.

Agree with Patience - the longer you leave this up in the air without trying to get to grips with the facts the longer EVERYONE involved will feel uncomfortable. I think you have a duty to be direct with your nanny asap.

Sorry OP! Just got back from being away. My friend essentially spent a couple of hours and put everything onto a spreadsheet. Moneys out, agreed expenditures, time frames, everything. Turned out the nanny had got away with almost £1000 over 6 months.

Once they had all the evidence on paper it was hard for the nanny to justify it or come up with any decent explanations. Eventually she tearfully admitted to it and offered to pay it back. Her parents then bailed her out for half of it and then she disappeared out of the country without paying back the rest.

It was really sad as she'd been great with their little girl but sometimes things like this are just too much temptation for people.