Unassisted Birth Rights

[Nataliejayne85]

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone could direct me to what my rights are to have an unassisted birth in reality.
I met a nurse yesterday who very bluntly said it was illegal to which I informed her it wasn't!
I am not very far along and I am already being wound up by the medical profession, I don't mind being given the information but I feel that I am being bullied which is why I am relucent to have even midwife present (though may consider if funds allow an indepentant midwife but as I don't want to be checked, I don't want to be causing trouble for a midwife RE her legal responsibilties and requirements). Also having experienced bad medical practice in the past I know saying NO doesn't mean NO to everyone and I do not want to be worrying about people not listening to me.
Also can I have other people in the house at the time of the birth or will they be held responsible if something went wrong, even if I refused their help?
Also anyone know any good legal people to draw up paperwork re unassisted birth if applicable?

Thanks

freebirthing is not normal practice

and yes, i stand by saying it is foolhardy

especially iwth no ante natal care

good , consistent antenatal care has significantly reduced perinatal moratlity

it is foolish to avoid such care

i thikn that freebirthing is selfish when there is compromise to be had, although i understadn the fears adn worries the OP has, alternatives and compromises are there to be had

formula feding is normal practice, it is not foolish

I thikn it would be far more wrong and ridicolous for people to refrain frm posting hteir true feelings and opinions, same way you have just insulted everyone who formula feeds their baby

it is a bit much to criticise people for calling the OP foolish, and then do the same yourself

I have worked for the NCT for years and I am well aware of most modern and credible research on the effects of breastfeeding (or not).

You arguments about the dangers of formula feeding are extremely tenuous. Your comparison to unassisted birth is yes STUPID, as well as completely irresponsible.

You are one of the reasons breastfeeding topics belong in the breastfeeding topic.

*admires Lulumaam restraint.

I have no such qualms, I know this is going to be deleted but mummyof2byapril you are a loon. (MNHQ not meant in joshing way I called someone it last time so I fully understand why this will be deleted)

Many children die world wide due to dirty water, dirty bottles etc being used for formula feeding.

The risk of formula feeding when used with hygienic practises with clean water etc, is simply not comparable to the risks involved with free birthing.

No-one would deliberately feed their child milk made with dirty water, so why would you deliberately refuse medical care that could potentially save your life and the life of your baby?

In some countries women have a lifetime chance of one in eight of dying in child birth. And that doesn't include the morbidity- the women left in permanent pain and incontinence for example.

So if you want to compare free birthing with ff, compare it to ff with dirty water, dirty bottles etc, which no one in their right minds would choose, they they could possibly avoid it.

well said belgo

Belgo, in the richest regions in the world, bottle fed babies as opposed to breastfed babies, suffer more illness, we all know this, as much as we know freebirthing could end tragically.
If I'm expected to respect the choice of a mother taking one action (bottle feeding, sleeping in seperate rooms and letting babies cry it out etc (of course that all upset me) if I have to shut my mouth and respect their right to do what is natural to them as a mother.
Then I should also respect a woman's choice to give birth how she likes, without calling her names either.
I'm not going to gang up on someone because their risky behaviour isn't socially excepted, but then inastantly have respect for another type of risky behaviour because that behaviour IS socially expected.

Statistically bottle fed babies may suffer more ear infections, allergies etc but the risk of this is not comparable to the potential risk of free birthing.

It is also mad to compare the two when freebirth is a choice and stopping breastfeeding or not breastfeeding is not always a choice for mothers. Some of us had medical reasons we had to stop breastfeeding and hated switching to formula but knew it was the only option left.

What I'm saying is that I may feel the same frustration with a woman who openly chooses to bottlefeed and take on detatchment parenting techniques.
But it would be fair of me to call them stupid, irrational, loons, etc, because it's their baby, their body, theri choice.
It's a hard pill to swallow that some people do riskier things out of choice.
I knew a girl who openly declared how HER baby loved sleeping with a blanket over his head at a few days old, she didn't want to breastfeed either incase her boobs got saggy and also left baby crying so she didn't 'spoil' him, I might of wanted to call her a fucking idiot at times :-)

But, you just have to try and tell people the risks and let them get on with it, becauses condeming them and acting offensively, and disrepectfully towards them doesn't actually help.

I will gang up on anyone who chooses to 'freebirth' or whatever it's called. It is naive, stupid, selfish behaviour. It is done by people thinking only of themselves and not of their loved ones.

Bottle feedi g is done by loving parents giving their child a food which is adapted to give a baby an excellent start in life. It is the action of a responsible adult .

In no way are the two comparable and it is ridiculous to fo that.

Well then you are judgemental and probably willfully ignorant if you assume a freebirther is not loving and wanting to give the child an excellent start in life also.

Your going around pointing fingers demanding that 'they' are selfish, and 'we' are loving and blah blah blah
won't help anyone.

Not many people have called the OP stupid. Most people have offered her information and and opinion (mostly out of a sense of concern, I think).

The vast majority of people on this thread have acknowledged that a supported homebirth is an appropriate and positive course of action, which allows a woman the freedom to weigh up the risks herself, but with a safety net should anything awful happen.

The sort of unassisted birth that the OP alluded to in her OP, far from weighing up the risks, virtually ignores all risk in a hands-over-ears-if-I-pretend-it-doesnt-exist-it-wont-happen manner.

I, for one, felt obliged to point that out to her, and to point out that there are safer alternatives that would still mean she could have an intervention-free, private birth.

If you have a problem with bottle feeding and so-called 'detachment' parenting, express it in the appropriate place. Don't introduce your agenda by stealth on random threads.

She is misguided, I would say, rather than selfish.

I do think some women fixate on the experience of birth almost above the outcome, actually, but that isn't really the point here.

Good I'm glad of her being supported and not just hated on.

I also think people who choose to practise detatchment parenting are just as misguided.

It's just trying to balance out our opinions and our respect for other's opinions, huh

England and Wales Perinatal Mortality rates 2008

Out of 708,644 births 0.51% were Stillbirths and 0.31% were Neonatal deaths within the 1st 7 days of life.

Thats a 0.82% Perinatal Mortality rate.

Causes of Neonatal Deaths:
57% related to Immaturity Conditions.
25.0% were from Congenital Abnormalities.
8.9% from (intrapartum)Asphyxia, Anoxia or Trauma
3.7% from Antepatrum Infections
1.9% from Other Conditions
1.4 from Infection
1.2% due to SID's
0.6% to Specific Related Conditions
0.2% External Conditions

All data collected was for both Home, MLU and Hospital Births (yes and that includes the ones born in the back of a cab or on a bus )

Amount of Hospital Births: 96.8% = 685,987
Of which CS's = 179,287 em's = 104879 and el's = 74408
Of which included inductions = 136,768
Of which instrumental delivery = 81,494

Amount of Homebirths :3.2% = 22,677

Normal Births in England and Wales: 56% = 397,549

OP...regarding these statistics from the Office of national statistics england and wales and Birthchoiceuk...would you feel comfortable with having a homebirth???? There are NO statistics relating to perinatal death percifically to either a hospital, MLU or home birth.

So take into consideration if you are thinking about a homebirth or even that of a freebirth...the mortality neonatal rate was higher in those mums that were transferred to hospital when previously had laboured at home for a period of thier labour.

Over half (1252) of England and Wales perinatal deaths are linked to Immaturity of the baby (organs not fully developed, brain not fully developed) and the second largest death rate went to Congenital abnormalities. Pregnancies between 36 and 39 weeks had the largest number of stillbirths. (while this maybe something you have no control over, it is definately preventable/recognised earlier in many cases with good antenatal care).

I think good antenatal care is vital if you are thinking of having a homebirth and defeinatley vital if you are thinking of freebirthing...there are risks and as many mums who have children will argue its not right, selfish...this is because they understand the heartache of losing the one person in your life that means the world to you (even if you havent experienced the death of a baby or child, when you actually have your child in your arms you can not bare to let them go). You have every right to consider a unnassisted birth...but really think hard whether it will be best for your baby and for your health and those who love you. You need a fantastic support system around you.

Just something to think about...

and sorry for all the SP mistakes spent ages on that research!!!!

I now need a very large cup of tea and maybe a whole packet of nice biscuits - think I better attend to dd now piling EVERYONES clean clothes from the radiators in the middle of the unhoovered living room floor!!

I now need a very large cup of tea and maybe a whole packet of nice biscuits - think I better attend to dd now piling EVERYONES clean clothes from the radiators in the middle of the unhoovered living room floor!!

In response to the op I would think very carefully before opting to free birth. For me the research, doesn't always mean much ( possibly an in accurate post but lies damn lies and statisics comes to mind) because every pregnacy and birth are different.

I had an unassisted home birth as everything went very quickley, just dh there. The birth went fine but afterwards, when I was checked over by the mw about 30 mins later, my blood pressure went through the roof and was rushed straight to hospital. Without the help I got I would have died. The thing is I felt fine, so I could have not called anyone, curled up in bed with the new baby (it all happened in the middle of the night) and never woke up again.

If you want unassisted go to a midwife lead birth centre, they are really good at listening to what you want and helping you achieve it (i didn't make it, but know others who have had fantastic experiences).

OP... search hospital ratings in your area click on the map for your area then you can see reports for the hospitals near you. Not every hospital is like the one your friend had experiences with... see my hospital was one of the lowest rated in the UK...where as the hospital 6 miles away was the best performing in thier maternity services. I would consider taking some time in your early pregnancy to go around several hospitals, MLU's in your area, speak to community midwives at the local GP's offices, and also speak to private healthcare services such as MUM's...then you can get an insight into how YOU feel about the way in which you want to birth.

mummyof2, you don't have to keep quiet when people are talking about risky/ inappropriate behaviours, lord knows i don't

have had many a conversation on here and in RL about rice in a bottle, early weaning, controlled crying etc etc..

your posts were critical of people for calling the OP selfish/foolish, then you went on and called other people the same thing

bottle feeding does not = detachment parenting

nor does it equal bad or lesser parenting, which is how your posts are coming across

you want everyone to be respectful of the OPs choices, and yet you are quite happy to be direspectful and rude about the choices of others.

and the OP has had support and some strong words, teh two are not mutually exclusive

i would have strong words in RL with the lady in your example, who said her baby loved sleeping with teh blanket over his head

I also don't keep quiet if I see a parent doing something with unacceptable risk.

I recently told a mother not to give her 9 month old baby sips of alcohol or coffee and to always do up the straps of the maxi cosi.

And I would certainly say something if a friend told me she was planning an unassisted birth, if only to try and make her realise she does have other safer choices.

But I would never say something about a parent's decision to bottle feed, because in our society that is a perfectly acceptable and safe way of feeding a baby, for whatever reasons.