is it true if you have a cs, they don't even cut through the muscle?

[bluegreysky]

they just pull the abdominal muscles to the side,as they seperate in PG anyway. then push down and clip the bladder out of the way then cut through the womb, remove bambino and sew up.

i can't really see whats so major about that.
not really what i'd class as MAJOR surgery.

lol skss.
you really don't know what your talking about.

Blue - please read my post of a few minutes ago.

There are serious (although statistically small) risks with any birth. Surely it's part of the deal when you get pregnant. Just like a healthy child isn't anyone's 'right'- all we can do is hope for it.

Of course there are risks in VB. There are risks in CS too. On average the risks are higher with CS, but that doesnt mean a VB cant be horrendous.

Of course if anyone had been able to see into the future you would have had a CS, but these things are not predictable.

Have you had a chance to go over your birth experience with the midwives at your local hospital? some hospitals have a service where women can talk over what happened at traumatic births, somethime it helps to understand what happened, and why particular decisions were made.

Women should know the possible risks of having a vaginal birth. These can affect you for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.

Women should know the possible risks of having a c-section. These can affect you for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.

This doesn't mean that a c-section isn't major surgery. Quite often it's the best thing to do, but it's still major surgery.

but what we are saying is that having a cs can affect the rest of your life too. there is no "little world" and the majority of women have vb's without any longterm problems, there IS a greater risk of complications with a cs than with a average vb, as i said before, i will still have another cs if i get pg again, but i am under no illusions that it will be the easiest option.

Okay - can't walk away despite best intentions.

SKSS means that if you had had a CS you might have been as unlucky as Lissie's friend - who DIED!

FFS woman, it is painful either way. I am desperately sorry that you were not warned of possible complications by your healthcare professionals, but stop taking it out on other women.

And RCOG guidelines say that potential problems/complications shouldn't be discussed if there is a less than 1% chance of it occurring as it causes unnecessary worry and stress.

There is a less than 1% chance of having a 4th degree tear.

I don't think it would be all that helpful to say to all pregnant women "there is a chance of you tearing totally from front to back and needing your arse stitched up afterwards".

I think the majority of women are very aware that they may get a tear (although maybe not to that extent). One of the first questions afterwards is "do I need stitches".

Women aren't stupid, they know that having a baby is hardly a day out at a spa.

You seem to thiink that women who had sections had an easier time than you, I'm simply trying to point out that all the women on this forum have had children, we all have experiences good and bad, whether they are VB or CS. Having a CS does not mean you have a simple birth, same as some women have a VB with barely a graze.

Well when I awoke in intensive care on a ventilator after a 9 hour general and a 12 litre blood transfusion my c-section felt like pretty major surgery to me!

And I can assure you I really do know what I'm talking about.

Don't be daft CD, it was a mere stroll in the park - only nine hours?

lrwg, ffs woman, women die in childbirth too!
and babies get brain damaged and injured during the birth process too.

well that was after 4 hours on the operating table with an epidural
So I guess 13 hours in total?
Not very fucking major

Yes they do! that's the point we are trying to make. It's shit either way. If we could just pick them up under the pumpkin patch, we would. Do not demean anyone's method of birth!

So you just lay there really CD and let someone else do the work - pah! You're even lazier than me.

I must say your anal stitching sounds blardy awful bluegreysky
I would NOT fancy that

thats right bluegreysky, they do. but there is a much lower risk of that happening.

Having really read the entire thread as I'm getting bored of the pain competition, urging every woman in the world to press a baby through her vagina because it's what nature intended and so forth...

I'm having an EL CS, I spoke to my surgeon in depth about the operation and would definitely class it as major surgery. BGS, your doc needs to cut through several layers of tissue which all need to be stitched up individually (yes, some docs clip them together and sow it all up at once but that's not ideal).

The muscles on your tummy are vertical musces (top to bottom), the muscles close to your pubic mound are lateral muscles (go across). First he has to make a lateral cut, then a vertical, or a few vertical ones, better said. He cannot just tweak your higher tummy muscles out of the way to reach baby, this is tissue.

"Setzen, 6" comes to mind... (German imperative + worst marks = You failed basic biology and should repeat the course.)

In the process of that operation your bladder could be nicked, etc.

In the eyes of the white-clad medical world the hierarchy of safest delivery goes:

1. vaginal
2. EL CS
3. forceps & ventouse
4. EM CS

However, should anything go badly wrong with the vag del, then you end up with the 2 riskiest ways of delivery. EL CS is the best for baby as it is the safest if not taken out too early. Vag del. can cause lack of oxygen, nerve damage, etc. Don't even want to talk about ventouse & forceps TBH.

However you shouldn't understestimate the risks of an EL CS and if I were you I'd go back to your doctor to discuss this one more time.

Yes, it can be awful, however you have the baby. Women used to frequently die doing this.
We are lucky now that we usually survive, but that doesnt mean it is easy. Some people have an easy time some dont.

If I had lived 100 years ago I would have died in childbrith, and my DD would have died with me.
The fact that we both survived doesnt mean that her birth wasnt the most traumatic thing that has ever happened to me.

Sorry that you had a terrible time, but I think you are approaching your problems in an unhelpful way.
I can understand that too. Some things are too painful to approach head on. Hopefully with time things will get a little easier for you.

Yes, this stuff happens in natural childbirth too. There are risks both ways. There is no risk-free way of having a baby. You can have a VB, have a fourth-degree tear and end up in pain for years. You can have a c/s, have bladder injury and end up in pain for years.

None of that is relevant to the question of whether a c/s is major surgery or not.

Great posts Alex and tigger. I will step away now as I am becoming upset and sarcastic, which is not a good look on anyone.

Please do seek help Bluesky.

You obviously drew the short straw in terms of vaginal deliveries - it happens to some women. Not very many- but of course to some.

Most of us will be dealt a duff hand at some stage in our lives.

Getting angry with people who have had an apparently easier time of it, getting angry that no-one has recognised what you've been through is not helpful. Get some counselling and help yourself to move on.

I've had both. anal sphincter repair after a 4th degree tear and a CS.
CS was easier to recover from.
I was lucky not to have long term damage after rectal damage but I'm still numb in some areas of my stomach 8 years after my CS.

I won't have another child but if I did I would opt for a CS and I wouldn't give a flying f*ck if anyone told me to concider natural birth because a CS is major surgery.

BTW do docs take out uterus to sew it back up during CS?

Sometimes they do, sometimes not. They did with my second CS but not my first.
I think it is called exteriorising the uterus.