The thread for first time home birthers (or thinking about it) - over here!

[Boobz]

I only just found out I was pregnant 10 days ago, and it is of course early days, but I have been doing a lot of research and am seriously thinking of having a home birth.

I'm a member of my Due March '09 ante natal club thread, but I don't want to go on about home birthing there where the majority will be planning a hospital birth (don't want to bore them!) I'd like to start this thread for all those people who'd like to talk about the pros and cons, planning, expectations and realities of home births, especially if it is your first baby, or first home birth.

Has everyone else's other halves been fine at the thought of a first baby HB? Or did you have to do some convincing?

A

"Dont know why im thinking about buying a birthing pool as i dont even know if i can or cant have a homebirth yet"

err, 'They' can't deny you a HB. they may be obstructive in order to wear you down in the hope that you will give in and go to hosp. but they can't deny you one.

Kiskidee I was denied a HB just yesterday just because the midwife team I've been placed with don not offer it so they can deny you. I've been told to transfer to another hospital if this is what I want. Don't worry, I plan to write a stinking letter to the management seeing as the bloody hospital is a five minutes drive away.
This is why I asked if anyone is in the same situation as me. I wondered if they are going to do anything about it? Or just stay at the hospital of their choice and have a hospital birth?

My understanding was that they can't force you to come into hospital but they are not (yet) obliged to offer medical support if you want to birth at home.

FruitynNutty good luck and hope the stinking letter does the trick

Fruity that is exactly what my midwife told me when I first told her that I wanted a HB.

I wrote to the SOM and had her removed from being my CMW. I can post the letter on here if you like.

At the time, I wanted to just tell her, well transfer me then. It wasn't like I had some special bond with her or her team and for heaven's sake with the hospital which like yours, is the most convenient for me.

I spoke afterwards to her team manager who absolutely said to me that, yes, they do do HWBs and will support me to have my baby anywhere, even if in a field.

Then later on she said about - but if we are busy, you will have to come in - Oh yeah?

That made me write my second stroppy letter which is already on this thread.

Another alternative is to call up her team manager or the Supervisor of MWs at the hospital and verify what she is saying as I highly suspect it is a load of bullshit.

Then if it turns out she is lying, ask for a change of MWs. If it turns out what she says is true then I will be very suprised. Will find more info of what to do when on your behalf if you like.

Thanks Rhian for the advice. my response to him was going to be a lot more stident. have to write it soon.

unfortunately dont think ill be buyin a birth pool just yet ChocOrange SOM was such a cow she was just here basically to convince me to come in to hospital as they really dont have anyone to send to me appearantly ..im so mad but ive told her im not comin in anyway! ive now written to head of midwifery at nursing and midwifery council hopeful that might get some result.

smileifyouwant wish my hospital was like that..

kiskidee they have just denied me one..although it did feel like she was trying to wear me down in order to come in to hospital but i stuck to my decision saying i wasnt comin in..

i then asked her what will happen if i call in labour and i ask for a midwife to attend me..she then said well we will tell you to come as we have told you b4 that we arent offerin that service..i then said what if i insist on you sending me one...she then said well we will tell you to call an ambulance as they are the emergency services and they will attend you..

i was soooo ...

im just really worried that they really wont send me anyone and ill have to go in

omfg. I can't believe how rude they are.

No, they have no right to deny you a home birth. The call an ambulance thing is ridiculous. You are not a medical emergency. You are a healthy woman going into labour, fingers crossed and hospitals in your opinion are for sick people and pregnant women with medical complications.

Write a stern letter, see my template below stressing that the National Midwifery Council states that denying a woman care at a home birth is no different from denying her care in a hospital birth etc.

Copy it to the Chief Exec, the Director of Midwifery, Your MP, the health Ministers, Alan Johnson and Lord Darzi.

Copy it if you like to AIMS and the director NCT.

Make specific referrals to claims statements she made and rebut them if possible.

I don't know too much about these issues but if you joint the home birth yahoo group and the ukmidwifery yahoo group, they can give you specific rebuttals as really I am only an amateur at this.

Feel free to CAT me if you want me to proof read, give you ideas, or any other odd comment on what to write.

It sounds awful the amount of you getting trouble with the hospitals/midwives over your right to have the type of birth you want, I must be very fortunate around where I live, I only have one hospital to choose from anyway but they have been very supportive over my decision for a home birth, I don't know what I'd do if they were as awkward as some of your hospitals. I'm very fortunate and I feel sorry for those of you that are having this trouble. It's wrong and .

YumMum22

I had a nap on this and I think this may be a good step forward:

Write a short, polite letter once more to the SOM, stating the points which were discussed at the meeting in your home. Keep it factual since you are entitled to a written reply to your letter. I remember now my doula telling me not to discuss anything with them on the phone so I guess the same thing applies in person, that only a written response would suffice as they owe you that much courtesy.

So, state that you are writing now to (1) reconfirm your impressions that your HB is being denied on grounds A, B, C.

(2) And that if so, which NICE, NHS guidelines or RCM guidelines are they using when they made those hospital policies.

(3) And that should you go into labour, they will send an ambulance to you so that the paramedics can deal with it or was it bring you to hospital?

Say you expect a written reply from calendar week from the post date. As you are now X wks pg. Attach your last letter and record the delivery.

It gives you a week to contact Beverly Beech at AIMS and Angela Horn at the Home Birth Website to gather references from NICE, and RCM etc which support HB's.

I would add that if a response is not received within a week, that you take it to mean that you have recalled the meeting accurately and will then be seeking further advice on the denial of your HB. (but that is just me, a bit confrontational.)

(I wrote my last letter at 31 wks pg and didn't get a reply till 35 wks but I didn't care, wild horses were not going to take me back to hospital because it was the fact that I received poor care in hospital that left me with emotional trauma the first time round. I would be willing to deliver with only my doula in attendance and contact the media, AIMS, the NCT, afterwards. My telephone can record outgoing and incoming calls which I have done before and would do the same to record their denial as evidence.)

PS, is that you who recently posted on the HB yahoo group? not meaning to be nosy, just hoping to support you through this.

oh yeah, the good thing about getting a written response from them is because it makes any conversation with outside agency hold water. They won't be able to be as effective if is becomes you recalling what they supposedly told you as they can change their story then.

The good thing for them to not give you a written reply is that the meeting feels like it holds a lot of weight and it may just make you back off and acquiesce to their crap service.

Personally, I don't want to go to a ward, especially one that is already short staffed! all the more reason to stay at home.

Wow, thanks kiskidee If you could post that letter I would be extremely grateful. I'm not very good at writing letters. I now know who to write to as I had no idea before.
I just don't understand how one team can deny you a HB and another team in the same hospital can offer it. Makes me so

This letter is a template one from homebirth.org.uk which i tweaked a bit to suit me.

The jist of it is that since my MW stated they did not do HBs then transfer me to someone who does then! No skin off my nose! I am having my baby in the place that is most suitable for me, not dependent on which hospital is responsible for me.

It is their duty to find the MW to care for you and I believe that they then have to pay the other trust to look after you, do all the paperwork to acknowledge the transfer etc.

Dear XXXX, Head of Community Midwifery:

My baby is due on and I have booked a home (water) birth under the care of _ ( community midwives.)
I am writing to inform you that I do not wish Midwife XXXX to be involved in my antenatal care, or to attend my labour and birth.

I am very sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you, and really do not wish to create additional work for you or your staff. However, I feel that Midwife XXXX does not support my aims in wishing to give birth at home.

I am worried that her attendance at the birth might have a negative effect on my labour, and I am not prepared to take the chance of this happening. I am also concerned that seeing her during antenatal appointments could make me anxious.

I do not intend to make any negative comments about Midwife XXXX?s skills; I am sure that she is perfectly competent and that she has provided wonderful care to many women. It is simply unfortunate that she does not appear to support my intention of having a home birth.

I am sure you will understand that I do not wish to discuss this matter with Midwife XXX. I would be grateful if you could arrange for another midwife to take over my care, who is supportive of my desire to give birth at home.

On a positive note, I met Midwife YYYY at previous antenatal appointments and was pleased with the care I received from her. I am however currently unaware of her position towards home and water births so I do not know how she would feel towards a request to support a home or water birth. I would be delighted if you could arrange for either Midwife YYYY or another midwife inside this team or in another Team or in another PCT who is supportive of my choice for a home water birth to take over my care.
Yours faithfully,

Thank you ever so much kiskidee I'll just change "Midwife xxxx" to "Team xxxx"

Best of luck with your HB!

thanks kiskidee i will definately look at what uve sugested and write some more letters. im kinda fed up of writing letters now..they arnt even getting me anywhere. i did post on the homebirth support group..its been fantastic with lots of information.

Wow - I am really shocked that they can (try!) to refuse you HBs - it's so wrong!

I guess I have been quite lucky as in our hospital (Epsom) there are signs up saying "Epsom MW support HB's" and they run HB workshops every month or so, so right from the beginning we knew it was a definite option - as long as the pregnancy was healthy.

Good luck with your letters YumMum and Fruity, you should definitely push for this as my MW told me that the reason HB's are offered is that the government wants everyone to have a choice in their birthing location and so denying you this choice is wrong. Well done to Kiskidee for some excellent suggestions - I'd vote for you on my team!

Yummum, I know you say taht you cannot afford an IM or a doula however, all your options are not gone. You can look into hiring a trainee doula. I think they charge about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of an established doula.

I have heard that the DoulaUK website has a hardship fund for mothers like yourself.

I found my doula by asking for any doulas who are practicing in my area as I could find none through normal channels. My doula contacted me personally by email.

If bad comes to worse and you 'have to' go to hospital, a doula can be the difference between a positive and another negative experience. My doula is a trainee and I have total faith in her decision making on my and my husband's behalf. Knowing that she is supporting me through these deliberate obstacles has made it feel a lot less daunting too.

"I found my doula by asking for any doulas who are practicing in my area" + on the homebirth website.

Hi everyone -- looking forward to the bank holiday weekend? I know I am!

Just to elaborate on what Fruity has said. We have found ourselves in the almost exact same position... we both live close to St George's hospital, and asked our GPs to refer us there. We both knew that they did homebirths. So far so good. Unfortunately, St George's is in the London borough of Wandsworth. I live in Streatham, which is in Lambeth, and Fruity lives in Merton -- also outside of Wandsworth borough. All women wanting to give birth through St George's and who live outside of Wandsworth get put on the Ivory team. Ivory team do not do homebirths. So they told us to go to the hospital which does do HBs in our own borough (mine is Tommies, and the closest to Fruity I think is in Kingston).

So it's a catchment area problem. I have made the transfer to Tommies (even though it is much further away from St Georges) as I figure the following:

1. Tommies have an excellent reputation for HB supporting midwives.

2)If I am labouring at home, and the midwife arrives from Tommies and says "nope - this isn't working, we need to go to hospital" in a non emergency way - which is what most HB transfers to hospital actually are (i.e. not an emergency), then we will make our way to Tommies and I can be there in 20 mins.

3. If I am labouring at home, the Tommies MW comes to me and there IS some kind of major emergency (life or death) and I need to get to the hospital NOW, then of course they will take me to St Georges which is the closest (just 5 mins away) rather than risk me and the baby by going much further afield to Tommies. They can talk about catchment areas and NHS policy all they like, but if I and / or my baby are in serious danger, then they will take me to the nearest hospital to get help - no midwife or medical professional would make any other call.

So by transferring, I get an arguably better homebirth supporting MW team and I still get the safety net of living close to one of the best neo natal units in Europe. If I do end up transferring to Tommies because it's a non-emergency transfer then that's the worst thing that can happen, and I don't think it's that terrible.

But I totally understand why you are angry Fruity - and I wish you the best of luck with your letters. There shouldn't be a postcode lottery with this kind of thing and I hope you manage to change their mind. I guess I have weighed up the options and decided transferring is the best thing for me. But I am REALLY interested to hear how you get on.

Well that's what I thought Boobz but my 3 friends who had a HB with St.George's all live in Merton Which is out of the borough. They all live a 5 minute walk from my house. It just doesn't seem fair at all. I've since been told that St.Helier is near me too but I don't know how they or Kingston, for that matter, stand with HB's. How do I find out? Will my GP be able to tell me? or is there a way of finding out on the net?

Also, if these two hospitals have the same policy as St.G's then I'm buggered really because there isn't a hospital in the borough of Merton

I have seen this thread several times but this is the first time I have actually looked in.

I am 30 weeks pregnant with ds3. My previous ds's were both born in hospital. Ds1 was almost a 12 hour labour/delivery, which was pretty straight forward for a back to back labour. Ds2 was born in a different hospital, was in rather a hurry and arrived after only 1.5 hours with nothing more than a few puffs of G&A and 39 minutes of pushing. Since then, ds2 has been quite ill, had heart surgery, has multiple food allergies and has never been left with anyone other than dh since he was 4 months old (he's 4.2 now). I am obviously a little concerned about a couple of things. A) what if this baby arrives quicker than ds2? I find it very difficult to distinguish between intense BH and the real deal until I am nearly in transition and then things move fast. If I go into labour on a week day, the chances of dh making it home from work and getting me to the hospital on time are pretty slim if it is another fast one. B) No one really wants the responsibility of caring for ds2, especially if he needs to be fed, which inevitablly if I am in hospital he will. No one can care for him as well as I can so I would rather be at home where I can still care for hi myself, or at least keep an eye on whoever is watching him.

Sooo, after all that, I have given serious thought to a homebirth. I have yet to mention it to my midwife as dh is really not on board with the idea. I guess like alot of people who know nothing about homebirths, all he can think of is all the things that might go wrong, he is scared for me and the baby, it is natural. I have toyed with the idea of just waiting until the last moment and then calling an ambulance, but don't want to decieve anyone like that or risk an unassisted delivery (although have read up on it just in case it is faster than even I think it might be.)

Do I sound like a homebirth is a good idea? How will the midwife react when I mention this for the first time at my next appt (when I'll be 32+5)? What if she isn't supportive? How can I try and get dh onside? I am not bothered about a birth pool or anything like that, I would be happy to do my own thing and then squat when my body tells me the time is right. I love the idea of being in my own surroundings and us getting to be a complete family from the minute baby makes his appearance. As you can imagine, having had a very poorly ds2 who spent alot of time in and out of hospital, I would not care if I never saw the inside of a germ ridden hospital ever again.

FruitynNutty - my community midwives are in Merton (because my GP is, even though I live in Lambeth) and assured me that I could definitely have a homebirth, although because of my address the midwives would be technically attached to Tommies.
The Merton midwives are attached to Mayday or St Helier, so presumably that's where you'd go if you were with them and needed to transfer in a non-emergency.
So far my experience is the GPs don't know much about pregnancy admin, so best to just phone a hospital to talk to a team of midwives and they explain it all!

Ironically I've decided to go to St George's (worried about exhaustion with first baby, and we currently have builders making a right mess at home), but I've been offered a homebirth half a dozen times! Maybe next time...

I'm assured that Tommies are aware I exist and will be alerted when I contact George's in labour, so that a postnatal midwife from Tommies will magically turn up to visit me after I give birth and go home.

Fruity I am at Epsom hospital which support HB and Epsom is twinned with St Helier so I assume they do too?