Why do so few FTMs manage birth ‘naturally’?

[hopingforapeainapod]

Hi all, am 24 weeks with my first baby and have started online antenatal classes and have been quite scared by the stats they have shared with us. In my trust, 25% of first time mums are induced, 25+% end in c section, and around 25-35% end in instrumental births. Anecdotally, I have 4 friends who have given birth this year for the first time, and 3 have ended up in emergency c-sections, and 1 ended up with forceps and some quite nasty complications. Another one of my friends is now having an elective c-section because she has heard so many horror stories. All of this, plus all the maternity scandal and birth trauma stories in the news recently, has somewhat thrown my confidence and I now feel like giving birth vaginally without intervention is the exception rather than the norm. My mum also had complications with us (I was born via epistiomy and ventouse) and I’m quite petite, and I guess I am just doubting my ability here…!

Exactly. There’s actually loads of science to say that anticipation of pain exacerbated the perception of pain. It’s very complex and interesting.

Hmmm, intersting hormone oxytocin

article today, somewhere and can’t remember..that linking low levels to PND..new research

now I always thought I had very low levels of oxytocin and never had any let down reflex at all. I did breast feed both dc but it took a lot of tears and persistence to get there and both dc were only just managing with ebf until they were weened at 5 months (big babies and this was 1990s).

I was thinking when reading article..ah, makes sense because I also had severe PND

Now you’re saying this, and I didn’t have easy births..mainly big baby small hip scenario but maybe oxytocin didn’t help

Going against the grain of some of these comments here.
3 babies in and being present at quite a few of my sister's midwife appointments, from what I've seen midwives push for induction in so many cases. Baby might be big, induce, baby might be small, induce, you're 37 weeks+ and feeling uncomfortable? Why don't we induce? And a good number of inductions don't work and turn into C sections.

Even for me, I had 3 very textbook pregnancies. I was 18 when my first was born and they wanted to induce me despite everything being perfect. They offered it from 37 weeks, and I think they assumed because I was young that I'd just accept it. I declined and my daughter was born at home with no pain relief or intervention.

Second baby I was 20, again textbook pregnancy. She was due 2 days before Christmas and the midwives were very pushy about induction, saying it would be easier for everyone and would avoid a Christmas baby. I refused, she was born 6 days early at home.

Third baby was also textbook, but it was post covid in 2022, the hospital restrictions were still pretty tight and they messed up loads of my appointments so baby's measurements weren't taken a single time until I was 36 weeks, and then they deemed her too small compared to the nothing they had to compare that measurement to. Pushed for induction, took me into a room where I wasn't allowed anyone with me and scared the life out of me. Told me my baby would die unless I was induced the next week, booked me in for the appointment immediately. I left feeling very stressed and on the spot. I went to get a second opinion about my notes and absolutely everything with my baby was healthy, there wasn't anything wrong at all. I didn't go for the induction and she was born at home, but they did refuse to send a midwife so I called a paramedic instead.
She was actually my biggest, so the whole thing about her being too small was a loads of rubbish, and I suspect they just didn't want to do a home birth on Easter weekend.

My point here is mainly just that midwives push for inductions when there's not any real need for them, fair enough in the cases where it's actually an emergency. But they do also lie, like they did with me. With my sister they tried to get her to induce saying her baby was too big and she wouldn't be able to do it naturally, which is such a ridiculous thing to say. She also didn't get an induction.

Can I please add some positivity. I am a midwife and this week I have delivered 4 healthy babies to first time mums. 3 spontaneous labourers and an induction. All normal vaginal deliveries, minimal tears. It IS possible and does happen.

I think it's the increase in medical inductions.

I had an easy first birth and think it's genetics and luck tbh. I'm petite but my hips are flexible and relatively wide. I was active up until the middle of the second trimester with my first and then pretty sedentary for the last 3 months. I drank raspberry leaf tea and ate dates and had a peanut ball to use in labour. She was back to back and I had to lie on the bed with continuous monitoring so got an epidural in the end. 1st stage was 4 hours, 2nd stage was an hour and that's the standard cut off where I am so at that point I had an episiotomy and she was out not long after. I wasn't so lucky with the 3rd stage and the placenta got stuck which was horrible.

Of the few people I know in the UK who've given birth (not including my Mumsnet due date groups) they've actually all had a pretty tough time with their first. Two forceps and three emergency c-sections. Of those I know well enough to know all the details it's quite shocking to me how long the NHS leaves women labouring before intervening. My cousin laboured for days on end and was totally exhausted and her baby had an infection.

I live in Malaysia and it's the opposite here, the majority of mothers I know had a natural delivery for their first with maybe an episiotomy. Birth here is a lot more medicalised which you'd think would lead to the opposite of more interventions but, anecdotally, that's not my experience. They will never leave you labouring for days here (at least not in the private hospitals that most of the women I know used - private is an affordable option for many). You have a named Dr who is the one delivering your baby and if you're having an induction they'll want that process completed in a day.

Because Mums are not goving enough support and we have to pay for it privately. I did the Positive birth company course and used hypnobirthing amd utilised all the techniques pre baby.

Does your Trust speak to you about prepping your body for birth. Food, movement, massage etc etc. I doubt it very much.
Due to our sedmentry lifestyle women are not moving much and the body is lazy the pelvic floor is lazy.

I had to search out all this information.

My Dad is 1 of 13 children and there was no pre or post natal care. My Grandmother is in her mid 90's well amd alive. All my uncles and aunts are alive and well. What's the difference. Orangic food, eating well, working manually on a farm, no laziness, and listening to their body and doing what felt right.
My Mums mother had 7 children, 5'2 and had no complications home births on their farm. On post or prenatal care. She passed away from a stroke at 78. But no birth complications etc no post or prenatal care.

I spoke to my Midwofe about it amd she says the research is pointing more towards over medicalised treatment of a natural process and being lazy sotting a lot. Not sitting naturally. Not squatting not moving our whole bodies all day. Going for a 30min walk is not enough. We need to be doing movement throughout the day. We have become couch potatoes.

The Mums in my group all.had interventions thats 9 mothers and Only I had a natural births. All of them said they relied on the Midwife and Drs at the consultant led hospitals to do it for them. They didn't take charge or their health and well being in pregnancy. Wveeything was reactive not Proactive. Most of them said they didn't need inductions.
2 had c-section only becuase it was already booked. On the day there was NO medical necessity. One Mama her baby was breach 1 week before. On the day baby was engaged and head down but they said oh well might as well go ahead.... She is traumatised by that as it was so nonchalant.
They both ended up with infections and stitches opening up and had not so good after care.
As they were Consultant based they all had backs on beds pushing and needed forceps and cuts that coupd have been avoided had they been proactive and spoke up for themselves. No back labouring up and moving and birthing in more natural positions.

In regards to size. My BFF is Floroda had 4 home births - long labours and BIG babies over 9 -11lbs. She is petite size 6 and 5'1 and she did everything natural and holistic. Doula and Midwife. She had natural tears 1st-2nd degree only.

Medical system is there and is needed by some but most people end up there as they can't advocate for themselves and they are not proactive. Hearing Mums say - My Dr told.me I need to do this. Uh no. Your Dr needs to have a discussion and then ask your consent. You cam refuse anything and everything! You can free birth at home if you want or whereevee you want. Your body your decision your final say. Drs can give advise and say what they think but they don't control you.

@Lafoosa yes! My DS1 was petite and they were teying to get me to go consultant led. Told them to Sodd off. My placenta was working baby was thriving, aminotic was fine, I was fine. Just petite. Born at 39w 5d at 6lbs! Very normal and average. My Mother had 3 babies all of ua 6pbs - 7lbs.
Even now DS 2.5yrs later he is petite around his waist but has long lanky legs like his Dad. Like adults you have people.who are tall, short, wide, petite, long torsos or long legs etc etc.
They over react when there is no medical need.
I worked in Health as an AHCP and I know there are other factors involved - unfortunately.

It annoys me immensely that something that SHOULD be so simple and easy (as it's supposedly 'natural,') is so difficult, and painful, and bloody dangerous for so many women. AND it leaves so many women with birth injuries - some that are life-changing. And those who have a C-section, are scarred for life. Why?! Why is it like this? Every other animal seems to pop out babies easily enough.

I have observed over the years though, that it's often easier for young women. A number of women I have known over the years who had their children before 25/26, and a few started at 17-21 - pretty much all had relatively straightforward, not-too-painful births, with no injuries. And everything went back to where it was within a few months.

DH's grandmother had 7 kids, 4 boys, and 3 girls, between the age of 17 and 27. All natural, problem free births. I know a number of other women (who started at 17-22-ish with similar stories.

Every last woman I know who had her first baby after the age of 30, had problems. With the pregnancy, and with the birth. Some had to have an emergency C-section, and took several months to recover. Some went for an elective C-section for the next baby. Some stuck at one.

I've also been confused by this. I've had loads of painful experiences that I wasn't expecting to be painful and didn't go into with fear.

I didn't think eyebrow threading was supposed to hurt, but it turned out to be the worst fucking pain I've ever experienced. I didn't go in stressed or scared and it was still absolute agony.

I've had two ELCS though, so haven't tested this theory with childbirth.

Oxytocin is the hormone that helps our bodies give birth, acting as a natural pain reliever. Medical fact.

Fear and anxiety inhibits oxytocin production, which is why it does tend to make birth more difficult and more likely to end in intervention. These are researched facts. I can provide links if you’d like but not now as it’s late and I’d need to find them.

@Wantitalltogoaway I know that, but I don't understand how not expecting things to hurt can make them not hurt. Otherwise no one would ever be taken aback by pain.

I understand in theory, but can't understand how it works in practice.

As I understand it’s not about not ‘expecting’ it to hurt, but not letting fear and anxiety build up, causing you to tense up and inhibit oxytocin prevention.

Everyone expects childbirth to hurt on some level, but remaining calm and relaxed in the run up to birth and during labour is surely better. That’s why hypnobirthing helps. It’s not woo woo as some posters up thread have suggested — it helps to relax you and that helps you deal with the pain. It’s pretty mainstream now. When I did hypnobirthing with my third DC it didn’t make it hurt any less than the others, but I was able to relax more and that helped me cope. Obviously if something is going to go very wrong then it will regardless, but I do think a relaxed mum is less likely to need intervention than one who is tense and panicking.

I think first-time mothers are scaremongered too much these days into thinking it always goes wrong (see some of the posts on this thread!), which doesn’t do anyone any favours in the delivery room.

@Wantitalltogoaway I think I'm just such a wuss that I can't fathom knowing something's going to hurt and not being a terrified mess.