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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Why do so few FTMs manage birth ‘naturally’?

165 replies

hopingforapeainapod · 03/07/2024 12:41

Hi all, am 24 weeks with my first baby and have started online antenatal classes and have been quite scared by the stats they have shared with us. In my trust, 25% of first time mums are induced, 25+% end in c section, and around 25-35% end in instrumental births. Anecdotally, I have 4 friends who have given birth this year for the first time, and 3 have ended up in emergency c-sections, and 1 ended up with forceps and some quite nasty complications. Another one of my friends is now having an elective c-section because she has heard so many horror stories. All of this, plus all the maternity scandal and birth trauma stories in the news recently, has somewhat thrown my confidence and I now feel like giving birth vaginally without intervention is the exception rather than the norm. My mum also had complications with us (I was born via epistiomy and ventouse) and I’m quite petite, and I guess I am just doubting my ability here…!

OP posts:
MammaTo · 03/07/2024 13:35

I have found certain hypnobirthing/prenatal courses try to convince you that birth should be this natural, Mother Earth, goddess experience - which if you can achieve must be a magical experience. But there is very much this underlying feeling that if you need medical intervention then there is something wrong with you. I feel it can lead to a lot of PND as women feel like they’ve let themselves down.

CaptainCabinets · 03/07/2024 13:37

Whatever gets my baby out safely, with as little pain and damage to my body as possible is my ‘birth plan’.

I don’t care if it’s natural, medicated, assisted, surgical, whatever - just get us both through it safely.

Dartwarbler · 03/07/2024 13:43

My DM had 3 children between 1961 and 1963. Her first birth, at “cottage hospital” went on for 4 days, resulted in forceps delivery and 4th degree tear. She gave birth at home, as was norm, vaginally, for the remaining births- all long and all with smaller tears

6months after I was born she was sectioned under mental health act for post partum psychosis. By the time she died 10 years ago we’d pretty much sussed out she’d more likely has PTSD from her first birth which had remained undiagnosed as it was back then- women did not get PTSD or shell shock as it was more commonly known as. My first 3 years were spent in care of my grandmother mostly . This absence had profound affects on my siblings and I which we didn’t come anywhere close to understanding until we were adults. Not trauma or abuse in its own right, but shaped our relationship with each other and our parents particularly.

my DM spent her life picking up pieces of this birth. She was still prolapsing her bowel into her final months, she had numerous operations to stop bladder prolapses, she had a hysterectomy. Her mental health was never the same, I suspect she suffered with mild depression all her life,she struggled with grief of being separated form her babies and small children for years, and the damage that did to bonding . She was also fucking angry she was not taken to the major hospital for a c section, in time during those 4 days on labour.

when I gave birth to my first child in mid 1990s, my labour very quickly mirrored my mothers experience. Baby’s head wouldn’t engage properly, contraction kept stopping, water breaking early on . 2 days in and I called it out and demanded a c-section. I was not going to go same route as my mum. Second baby I went into a “trial by scar” conversation with midwife at hospital expecting to have to fight my corner to have elective section- I didn’t have to fight , midwife said immediately that big baby with big head combined with my unusually narrow hips wasn’t going to suddenly result in a successful vaginal birth . DM and I were both close to 6foot tall, with very narrow hips in relation to our height. We both had very long babies with big heads. 🤣still are at 6”7 and 6”6 !

my mum was “lucky” to have survived her first birthing experience, thanks to the , albeit pretty poor, intervention back in the 1960s. But I know she didn’t feel lucky most of the time, she felt uncomfortable, restricted, and suffered mentally. I feel very blessed that the nhs and medical knowledge put my health and well-being above statistical targets.

We have seen numerous incidents of maternal deaths, stillbirths, brain damage scandals etc as a result of “why can’t it all be natural” fantasists and theorists running maternal services.
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/the-role-of-the-natural-birth-movement-in-the-nhs-maternity-scandal-is-being-ignored-1558556
Every decision for intervention should always made at an individual level, based on that birth and risks vs benefits.

Yes, we can argue that mqybe there is a bit too much intervention, but that is a purely emotional response, or one that’s also be driven by financial targets. In reality we still need good quality epidemiological studies to figure out if and why intervention is rising and what are the long term (lifetime )benefits and risks to mums and babies. For instance mums are getting older, we can’t change those factors without removing women’s autonomy . Babies are also bigger than 100 years ago, and more so in developed countries. We can’t stop that nor would want to. So there a whole bunch of potential causes or correlations which would need to be untangled to get to heart of what is happening and what level of intervention at a population level is “acceptable or normal”. But we all know that money for such a massive research program, in such a high risk area, with little scope for ,stuff like double blind studies is not going to happen. Ever.

Statistics by themselves are wholely meaningless and scaremongering. That has led to some devastating massive damage to mums and babies and families at some hospitals as a result of knee jerking “birth should be natural”

OP, make your birth plan in best case scenario. But think and note also what you want if baby is overdue and needs inducing, or you need c section. It is not “failing” to give birth naturally. You have already done 24 weeks of hard graft growing a human from 1 cell you contributed, and 1 your partner contributed, to the little bump you’re just becoming aware of. By the time you get to birth YOU , and only you, will have grown that to a baby of flesh, bones, cells, blood muscle skin and everything else form your own bodily resources. If you decide to breast feed you may continue to grown that 6-9 lb of flesh and blood to 30 lb of flesh and blood. And bloody hell that’s no mean feet , exhausting, takes it toll on your body for the rest of your life. Women say giving birth is the most memorable day in their lives- maybe becuase we dismiss this growing aspect of pregnancy by terms like “carrying the baby”. You’re not “carrying a baby” , nor are “we pregnant “. You are alreasy doing the most most astonishing thing a human being can do - focus on that. Celebrate that. The birth is about getting you and little one through it safely, as painlessly as possible. It is one day. You will have 40 years of days plus with your baby then!

stop reading the scary statistics - control what you can control

The difficult truth about the NHS maternity scandal

A credo of 'natural birth' was disseminated to middle-class women who, in turn, demanded non-interventionist births – radical midwives became fervent converts

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/the-role-of-the-natural-birth-movement-in-the-nhs-maternity-scandal-is-being-ignored-1558556

Cantileveredy · 03/07/2024 13:45

Propbably increasibg as
Maternal age at first birth increases
Bav
babies surviving who wouldnt have so genes that would have selected for easy births are not increasing.
I think the births in our family theres been 1 with no inrervention
As
2 breech
2 back to back
2 small petite mum who had CS
Dc2 uncomplicated - but was overdue 8.8lb and had meconium in the waters

Drearydiedre · 03/07/2024 13:46

Lots of the people who advocate natural births are people who had a medicalised first birth, which they resented, did something different like hypnbirthing and then had a wonderful second birth.
They then become advocates for whatever they did differently.
I had a wonderful second birth but I'm fairly certain it's simply because everything had stretched!
There's tons you can do to help labour and feel more in control of the pain. Women need to educate themselves about their bodies. Things like hypnobirthing are great but it will never make your pelvis bigger or your baby's head smaller. Labour moves much quicker second time. Giving birth is considered much safer for both baby and mum second time round.

FunnysInLaJardin · 03/07/2024 13:54

I didn't realise that being induced and having forceps meant you didn't give birth naturally?

I had both with both DC and consider that I gave birth naturally!

CaptainCabinets · 03/07/2024 13:58

FunnysInLaJardin · 03/07/2024 13:54

I didn't realise that being induced and having forceps meant you didn't give birth naturally?

I had both with both DC and consider that I gave birth naturally!

You did! You still pushed out a whole human!

turkeyboots · 03/07/2024 14:00

Because we are much older as first time mothers generally.
Because it hurts and we're less used to pain in every day life generally.
Because birth happens behind closed doors in hospitals and we are unfamiliar with how it looks and how it works.

If we were medieval peasants we'd be younger, fitter, and have no expectation of pain relief and would have seen plenty of births by the time we were teens. And it would still be a risky business.

XelaM · 03/07/2024 14:04

I've had an uncomplicated fairly quick vaginal birth with just gas & air 🤷‍♀️ but I'm the opposite of petite 😂 so maybe that's why I was lucky

Radiatorspring · 03/07/2024 14:09

Drttc · 03/07/2024 12:57

Personally, I think a natural birth requires LUCK in addition to lots of preparation! In the end it will be out of your hands but there are things you can do to increase your chances. I’ve given birth three times, naturally (no inductions, no instruments, no significant tears or stitches, no epidurals) and back home within a few hours. I did A LOT in the hopes of being in top shape for birth:

-Daily exercise and generally being active and upright until the end
-Healthy weight gain
-Pregnancy appropriate core exercises (they only take 5 min 2-3 times a week)
-Prenatal vitamins
-Reading in depth about how birth works. When you are scared it can stop the hormones which progress labour and open/loosen up your body. I can recommend my favorite books if you’d like.
-Active birth positions (on all fours has been my best as you can somewhat control the birth to prevent/reduce tearing)
-Perineal massages from about 34/35 weeks (none of my friends ever believe me about these but by the end you can see how you’ve stretched and how a baby will be able to exit!)
-Pelvic floor exercises
-EDIT: Forgot to say Hypnobirthing recording when you go to sleep as it helps with positive affirmations

But if, for example, baby is too big or poorly or there’s any danger, you need to be prepared to accept the help (and be at peace with this is advice). Your approach mentally is so important!

Edited

Did all this. 8 hours into being on the induction drip because my hind waters had broken and they needed baby out, I was shouting "Hypno birthing fucking wankers!"

LoveSandbanks · 03/07/2024 14:12

It doesn’t matter how your baby is born as long as you are both healthy. I wanted a home birth with my first. It ended with an episiotomy and ventouse. I then ended up in theatre with a retained placenta.

it doesn’t matter. It wasn’t the best experience of my life but I went on to have 2 more babies so it must have been worth it. Relax, have minimal expectations and do what’s necessary at the time.

I did have 2 home births and it still hurt and I still felt like I’d been hit by a truck afterwards 😂. I don’t believe birth is ever “lovely” despite what influencers try and tell us.

XelaM · 03/07/2024 14:13

Drttc · 03/07/2024 12:57

Personally, I think a natural birth requires LUCK in addition to lots of preparation! In the end it will be out of your hands but there are things you can do to increase your chances. I’ve given birth three times, naturally (no inductions, no instruments, no significant tears or stitches, no epidurals) and back home within a few hours. I did A LOT in the hopes of being in top shape for birth:

-Daily exercise and generally being active and upright until the end
-Healthy weight gain
-Pregnancy appropriate core exercises (they only take 5 min 2-3 times a week)
-Prenatal vitamins
-Reading in depth about how birth works. When you are scared it can stop the hormones which progress labour and open/loosen up your body. I can recommend my favorite books if you’d like.
-Active birth positions (on all fours has been my best as you can somewhat control the birth to prevent/reduce tearing)
-Perineal massages from about 34/35 weeks (none of my friends ever believe me about these but by the end you can see how you’ve stretched and how a baby will be able to exit!)
-Pelvic floor exercises
-EDIT: Forgot to say Hypnobirthing recording when you go to sleep as it helps with positive affirmations

But if, for example, baby is too big or poorly or there’s any danger, you need to be prepared to accept the help (and be at peace with this is advice). Your approach mentally is so important!

Edited

I did absolutely none of the above and had a very uncomplicated vaginal birth with no medication (apart from gas & air) and no tears and also home within a few hours. So I think LUCK it is 😂

CocoPlum · 03/07/2024 14:18

One thing to say is, I'm sure there will be a huge overlap with induction and assisted/c- section birth. It's not likely to be a 25% unassisted birth rate.

I think a large part of it is due to the induction rate. I work with new mothers and the amount who are induced for things like predicted baby size, or maternal age, is increasing (i should say none of these babies have been the size a scan thinks they will). Induction starts the cascade of intervention which often ends in C section/assisted birth.

The best thing you can do to prepare is be informed about choices you may need to make during delivery. Good luck!

Kosenrufugirl · 03/07/2024 14:29

Blahblah34 · 03/07/2024 12:48

Sedentary lifestyles probably play a part. Birth is like a fitness endurance event and should be trained for by keeping active throughout pregnancy. There's a myth that pregnant women should rest up and move as little as possible and that's not good training for the main event.

(I accidentally walked about 6 miles and swam a mile on the day of my 1st birth and it all went pretty smoothly...)

Hi there I am a labour ward midwife. Being active in pregnancy and not eating for 2 massively swings the odds towards the natural birth. Any amount of exercise is better than none. Sensible diet and sensible weight gain is really useful. Also, not expecting to have a "natural birth with all the drugs that's out there" (real life comment). Being mentally prepared. I would recommend Positive Birth Book to any pregnant friend any time. I hope it helps

Wallywobbles · 03/07/2024 14:42

From a quick browse all childbirth interventions also increase with age.

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 03/07/2024 14:46

My first two births were unassisted vaginal deliveries. Spontaneous labour too.

My third was induced due to GD and his size. I ended up haemorrhaging and DS’s heart rate plummeted so I had an EMCS under GA. We’re both alive and well.

I have three healthy children and I am so grateful for that. Medical intervention saved mine and DS’s lives.

hopingforapeainapod · 03/07/2024 14:49

Thanks for all sharing your stories / advice. I agree it’s good to be informed and go with an open mind - whatever gets baby here safely is obviously the priority, but I also want whatever does my body the least long-term damage too. Like I said I think I’ve just been thrown by how many of my friends have ended up with emergency c sections even though they did all the hynobirthing / prep / all the rest of it. Maybe it’s not as horrible as I think (anything with the word emergency makes it automatically sound worse) but the more I learn the more it somewhat sounds like there are no ideal options!

OP posts:
Weirdaf1 · 03/07/2024 14:52

XelaM · 03/07/2024 14:13

I did absolutely none of the above and had a very uncomplicated vaginal birth with no medication (apart from gas & air) and no tears and also home within a few hours. So I think LUCK it is 😂

I think it's mostly luck too. I had hyperemesis and depression in pregnancy. I barely left the house, did no preparation and no exercise. My first labour was straightforward and under 5 hours.

eurochick · 03/07/2024 14:57

In addition to everything said above, I think modern obstetrics doesn't help. Contractions slow if women are stressed. Being in a situation where you don't know the midwives looking after you and there has been no continuity of care will not be conducive to a relaxed environment.

Mitsky · 03/07/2024 14:58

Blahblah34 · 03/07/2024 12:48

Sedentary lifestyles probably play a part. Birth is like a fitness endurance event and should be trained for by keeping active throughout pregnancy. There's a myth that pregnant women should rest up and move as little as possible and that's not good training for the main event.

(I accidentally walked about 6 miles and swam a mile on the day of my 1st birth and it all went pretty smoothly...)

I’ve been really surprised by the amount of people who have been telling me to rest and take advantage of doing nothing during pregnancy. I’m no marathon runner but I’m fit and healthy and have joined a gym at 22 weeks so I have access to a pool and weights along with the regular machines!

maw1681 · 03/07/2024 15:01

Giving birth as a FTM has always been dangerous, and the number 1 killer of young women back in the day.
Also FTM are older now, and with good nutrition during pregnancy babies are bigger.
It used to be seen as quite normal for a first baby to die, and mums were just told it'll be better next time.
My eldest would have most likely died without medical intervention, second time around very straightforward

pandasorous · 03/07/2024 15:10

generally human births carry a fairly significant risk of complications
also these days there are factors such as increased maternal age, more mums with underlying health issues or obstetric complications giving birth, more ivf babies leading to more twins/triplets, we are able to monitor babies more and sometimes the decision is made to deliver early, increased levels of obesity and reduced physical activity of mums.

@hopingforapeainapod if you can be physically active, do so right up to the birth. not overly strenuous stuff obv, walks, swimming, pregnancy yoga etc. anything to strengthen those pelvic muscles and increase flexibility. but either way, having interventions is not a bad thing. all births are natural.

Porridgeislife · 03/07/2024 15:13

Moier · 03/07/2024 12:48

I didn't have a choice.
40 Years ago my waters broke.
11 hours later l gave birth to my first daughter with just gas and air.
8 years later l had my 2nd daughter in 7 hours with Gas and air .
Both vaginally.
So did my 5 siblings.
All healthy normal babies and delivery.
We didn't even know if we were having a boy or girl.
I've had worse pain in my life than child birth.

Good for you! 39 years ago my mum was in agony with a breech baby, no intervention on offer or available. She has lifelong injuries from that birth.

Thank goodness that a c-section is readily available now for breech babies.

lemonstolemonade · 03/07/2024 15:13

I walked 6 miles the day before I was induced at nearly 42 weeks. She was 9lb13 at birth and back to back. No one remarked on my size, despite growth scans, or on baby position or size of my pelvis. I was just given induction drugs and left to get on with it on my own with monitoring. I stayed on my side and on hands and knees throughout the process, but ended in c section and I never felt any downward pressure despite being 10cm dilated, so I suspect baby was stuck and couldn't move down the canal. I do sometimes blame myself as to whether I could have done more, because we are sold a bit of a dream of the natural birth by midwives and NCT, but the reality for me was that I received very little care apart from very perfunctory and quite disinterested monitoring throughout pregnancy and birth until I had a c section for "failure to progress", so if there was more that could have been done to get me to birth naturally, I don't think it was on me to do it! I kept myself pretty fit overall, was training as a Pilates teacher whilst pregnant, and still had a c section. In my case, probably being married to a tall man and being very slight myself was a risk factor.

shearwater2 · 03/07/2024 15:15

There is an element of luck to it, though I think knowing all about what might happen and what your options are for most people means less fear.

Though with DD1 as soon as I started having proper contractions I was terrified- really that it might go on for 24 hours like that and how on earth would I then have any energy to push? So I went for epidural as soon as I got to the hospital. It didn't slow down labour, it was still about six hours, though I had more tearing than with DD2 (though that is probably normal for first v second labour).

For DD2 what made a difference was that I had done it before and was therefore pretty confident that labour might be very short indeed or at any rate not 24 hours if it was only six hours the first time, which fortunately turned out to be correct and labour was exactly the same length but I just had gas and air.

What also helped though was that I learned some hypnobirthing and breathing techniques which definitely helped to dial down the pain of contractions.

For both pregnancies I was active, and I was fit and healthy BMI before becoming pregnant, and I was 29 and 33 when I had them- I actually did a seven mile race before I knew I was pregnant with DD2- though stopped running soon into pregnancy as it didn't feel right. I did keep walking though - at 37 weeks with DD1 I walked four miles- slowly, mind! Before I had DD2 I'd taken up pregnancy yoga and did some hypnobirthing too. I also drank gallons of raspberry leaf tea after I went on mat leave each time which is supposed to help with contractions/quicker labour.

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