For those of you who had a General Anaesthetic with your Caesarean

[kitstwins]

This is a bit of a personal question but I'm about to start my counselling for PND and wondered if anyone could give me any feedback from their experience.

I don't know anyone in real life who had a caesarean under a General Anaesthetic. Mine was carried out as they botched both epidurals and there were no other options - I'd had a huge bleed at 35 weeks into my twin pregnancy. Both babies were born healthy but I've never really felt the same since and found the whole experience both emotionally and physcially traumatic. Physically, because they used forceps, mangled me and then I reacted very badly to the morphine afterwards and was in incredible pain for days, and emotionally because I missed the birth of my children. Not seeing them born was hugely bewildering, totally unexpected and left me coming round from an anaesthetic completely out of it. Quite simply they could have been anyone's babies.

Did anyone else feel similar following a GA caesarean and, if so, how did you 'recover'? I suppose it relates more to people who've had them as a 'surprise' rather than as a planned procedure. So a GA due to a crash emergency. How did you make yourself better? I've held out on anti-ds as I'm really not sure about going down that route and day to day I'm doing okay, but part of me is still rather traumatised. It would help to know if others had felt the same, that I wasn't abnormal for feeling this way, and also that there WAS hope for feeling like 'me' again.

I have read stories on a few other sites but they've been very much in the "I felt fine and was up mucking out the stables the next morning" vein. Brilliant, but probably not what I want to hear at the moment as it will just reinforce my despair.

Thanks in advance.
Kitstwins
x

Sorry, I have asked for my last post to be deleted, I wasn't very nice.

newyorkdolls, please don't say that our experiences of our " 'ruined' childbirths " make you ....what are you saying? That because we didn't go through what you did, our experiences aren't real? Aren't worth our tears & heartache? Aren't worth making us feel the way we do/did? Because our experiences are VERY valid & very real, just like your own.

I am really really sorry for what you endured, I have NO idea what you went through, but I think your post may well set the OP back, she already feels like her feelings & views aren't valid, and you may have just been another to voice her greatest fears.

You still sound very upset & very angry, I hope you find a release for your pain, I really do, but hitting out at another suffering mum really isn't the way.

had a CS under GA at the portland. CS was necessary due to PP IV but i chose the GA as i find surgery traumatic and wanted to avoid further trauma. but did have a few complications in the 24hours afterwards. this was dealt with very swiftly and I recovered very well from the whole thing.

saw DS for a few minutes after birth but then he was whisked away to NICU. saw him the next day which was a bit sureal as he was so tiny and hooked up to so many things.

in the end was glad i had a cs as i could stay in hospital with him longer and had time to recover a bit more before he came home.

only regret was that we did not get breastfeeding going exclusively but i am not going to get upset over it.

missed whatever NYD said, but i would just like to reiterate there are no degrees of trauma that have to be achieved before you can be said to have had a traumatic birth, the volunteering i have done with the BTA shows that, there is a whole spectrum from women with what seems like a perfectly straightforward vaginal birht, to crash sections, and everything in between

the thing i will always stress is that how the birth makes you feel is normal, valid, allowed and important. the fact someone else feels it isn't is not relevant, your feelings are the ones that need addressing.

Well thank God I missed New York Dolls post. I've no idea what she said, although I can probably guess. Which is a shame, as I've found this a really helpful thread so far.

No one has a monopoly on trauma or pain and one persons disaster is another persons slightly rubbish day. I feel the way I feel and as much as I'd like to change it, I can't. Although I'm trying. I never claimed to have had the worse experience in the world and I'd never say that I've suffered more than anyone else. It's just how I feel and I'm trying to come to terms with it. Congratulations to anyone who deals with things better than me; you're obviously far more robust than I'll ever be. But that was just my day and this is just my reaction to it. Right or wrong, extreme or not. It has nothing to do with anyone else's experience. And NYD, if you've had a worse time then I'm sorry for you. It's no fun and I hope you're getting lots of support. But at the same time it's not a race and my feelings are just as valid as yours. Otherwise we run the risk of competing for the 'Gold Medal' for most shIttiest birth, and I can't imagine how any of us would want that.

I'm going to stop waffling now as I'm getting drawn into something negative when that is the last thing I wanted on this thread. To all those who did post, thank you. I have kept note of your wise words and kindness.

Kx

IMO and IME, your own pain will always be worse than anyone elses, because it's yours.
Doesn't mean you cannot empathise with others, but you will never feeel the same way about someone elses situation as you will your own. So in that respect, yours is the worst, ever and you're entitled to feel that way, if you can feel that way with a bit of consideration for otehrs, even better.

I choose a GA for DS1 as I had been in labour for 3 days with a contraction every 4 mins and when the anaesthtist came, once the need for c/s had been decided I just snapped "what's going to be quickest" though as an RGN I knew what his answer was going to be. I woke up nose to nose with DS which was lovely. I suffered from labour flashbacks for ages but the GA was the best bit!

With DD I needed another emergency c/s I opted for an epiduarl but the aneasthetist wasn't very nice and seemed quite cold I just didn't trust him to stick needles in me. The ODA was lovely and when I heard the ODA telling the anaesthetist how to work a machine I just felt 'he won't let me die' and said I'd changed my mind and wnted a GA.
I awoke to DH standing next to me holding DD.

Perhaps the fact that the GA was my choice helped. I would have liked a natural brth but have no great regrets.

What I said boils down to this, I didn't hold my baby for a MONTH, as he was so ill and prem. I hope you were all lucky enough to hold your babies earlier.
AND I aplogised and asked for my post to be withdrawn very very quickly.

newyorkdolls,, that must been awful not bein able to hold your baby for month. not being able to hold baby for that long even now would nearly kill me. why did you have a cs.

NYD, I appreciate you apologised and asked for the post to be removed, but maybe if a comment was made to you like 'At least you got to hold him, mine died' and made you feel like your pain was insignificant then you would understand what the focus of this thread is all about, too many people are told that because their baby has survived they should be grateful and get on with it.

I do hope everything is ok with your LO now. Your story is just as important as amyone elses.

did you have any counselling or any support, NYD, or talk through what happened?

Why would I have councelling? Life goes on, I never look back, only forward.
It doesnot matter to me how my baby was delivered, what matters was that he and I lived, it was a bloody close call for me and for ds it continued to be so for years actually.
DS is wonderful, brilliant and fantastic, who along with his sister is the joy of mine and dp's life, thanks for asking.
DS has CP, GDD and CLD. But, that is life you have to get on with it. I suppose the bottom line is, I have never had time to look back and think about ds's birth. He and I have other needs which take priority.

fair enough.

many women do avail themselves of counselling or debriefing, and do find that the way their baby arrived needs dealing with , particularly if they want to have more children

for many women, pretending it does not matter, not that i am saying that is what you are doing, is part of the problem.

feeling that is should not matter when it does matter is not helpful

also, simply beacsue you did not feel it necessary, does not mean it could not be helpful to someone else

counselling and debriefing is routinely offered after any kind of trauma in many walks of life

i wish you all happiness and a good , long life together

My pre-eclampsia was with my second child, I didn't have it with my first, which is unusual when all children are with the same partner. As the pre-eclampsia went from 'we would like you to go to hospital for observation' too 'life threatening' within 24 hours; then, after delivery I had eclampsia too, I have been told I can never have any more children.

Kits - I had a crash c/s for my first birth. I was and still am ... groping for the right word ... traumatised initially then bewildered by it. Luckily I did not suffer PND. I don't think the two go hand in hand.

But I still occasionally ask my DH about what happened in the hour or so after my DDs birth. Because I wasn't conscious and I feel I missed out on something VERY IMPORTANT I keep needing to ask him for little details. We had our last big talk about it on the eve of our DD's 7th birthday a few weeks ago. It carries on being relevant and you may want to go over and over it again. But I do hope this doesn't mean you can't learn to live with the fact of it and move on. All my sympathies. Daphne x

My last message was only half printed. the rest is below.

I am NOT pretending it really doesn't matter to me, I truly couldn't give a shit how they got my baby out, they could of dragged him out through my ears for all I care, so long as he lived.

OP. I live by this motto,
You can only do the best you can with the information you have today. So, do not regret yesterday, live for today and look forward to tomorrow.

I will not be posting on this thread again.

I'm new to mumsnet, so I don't know if I'm flogging a dead thread here, but I couldn't let this lie.

I see the point newyorkdolls is making, it does put my experience into some kind of perspective. But I don't think any of us on here have claimed to have had the worst birth in the world, or aftermath. Besides I didn't realise we were involved in some kind of warped competition.

All kitstwins asked for was people with similar experiences to share them, so she could make some sense of what has just happened to her, and some of us did just that. It's a shame that even on here some of us should be made to feel silly for the feelings we have. Maybe I'm just over sensitive.

I'm sorry I can't put this as eloquently as some of the others on here, and I agree with kitstwins' last post and this shouldn't be turned into a negative thread.

i think you are absolutely right icklelou, and welcome to mumsnet

newyorkdoll.. if you are still reading this thread , i am truly sorry that you had such a horrible time,and that you cannot have more children . if you are able to look forward without dwelling on the birth , then great! not everyone can move forward . as i posted earlier, i wish you and your LO a long happy life together.

Okay. I now understand the gist of NYD's post. And great, I'm glad you are able to move forward and not look back. That's a good philosophy to have. But I'm unable to do that; I wish I were, but I'm not. It's not for want of trying. I can't seem to flick the switch and turn the memories off as much as I would like to.

The 'perfect' response would appear to be to go through a traumatic birth and then never look back and I tire of the implication that dwelling on what has happened is somehow selfish. That instead of harking back to the events of that day I should be getting down on my knees to thank God that my babies survived. That's a very black and white way of looking at things and actually I don't think it helps.

I'm glad that this is the way things have worked for you, but it doesn't work that way for everyone and it certainly didnt' work that way for me. Does that make me weaker or a worse mother for not being able to thank my lucky stars and never look back? Maybe. But so be it.

I know you've left the thread but your posts didn't help and I can't imagine how you thought they would. However sensible your advice your delivery sucked. It's exactly this sort of response that set me back so much post-birth - the implication that what I had been through was totally irrelevant. Interesting to see that even a thread about this very issue ended up containing that message.

K

Kitstwins, I wasn't going to respond to NYD's posts but I was really worried to see that they have upset you. Actually, I would like to apologise to NYD if I somehow offended her by saying that I didn't hold my ds for 5 days - I was explaining how he felt like the hospital's baby. I certainly wasn't trying to start a competition, I was trying to offer some sympathy and hopefully some support to a mum who seemed to be feeling the same way I did, for whatever reason.

I wouldn't dream of going onto a thread by mums who were traumatised by a cs at full-term and say "what you feel is invalid, I had it worse than you" (and I don't think that is remotely true anyway). I'm really sorry that NYD had such a terrible time but I think she could have shown a bit more compassion and respect for Kitstwins and her feelings.

So anyway, Kitstwins, I just wanted to remind you that you are not selfish or wallowing in self-pity or any of those other silly things that people might imply. You are perfectly "entitled" to feel sad, traumatised, angry, whatever you might feel, and I hope no one else ever tells you you're not. And also that your counselling goes well.

Sorry that was a bit of an unconstructed rant

kits, i think NYD's look forward and not back was the sole voicing of that opinion
it is not a competition, i did not hold my baby for 2 days, you did not hold your baby for 5 days, so should i be 2.5 times less traumatised?? of course not !

how you feel is valid, important and needs to not just be hear, but to be listened to.

you will find peace, i promise.

A bit behind now but I wanted to join others in thanking Sandcastles for her posts of 1st Feb - not only her friend's words but her own image of her DD seeing her birth really positively. The LOs are so wise ...

So I've been looking around Mumsnet and other websites to do with c-sects and women's feelings about it. EVERYONE SAYS THE SAME THING: it's the loss of those 'firsts' - first cry, touch, voice - that parents grieve; mothers feel they've earned those priveleges and they shouldn't go to anonymous medics. WHY DOES THIS GO ON? It seems INFURIATINGLY obvious that there should be codes of practice ensuring that these issues get recognised and parents' feelings/wishes about those first moments of their baby's life are honoured. Planned c-sects do not seem to be followed by such grieving. Why don't they take some of the commonly made requests for planned CS (like "I want to hold my baby IMMEDIATELY if possible, and if not, for a photo to be taken inmmediately") and make them STANDARD practice??

Kitstwins, it's really positive to anticipate that your complaints might avoid others having your experience - but I bet they won't! Any more than mine will! Mumsnet is full of stories from ppl who've gone back to the hospital to discuss their disapointments, yet the shoddy practice continues. Clearly they keep making the same mistakes all the time, and not listening to feedback.

If I didn't have a newborn to look after I swear I'd be rallying the troops and starting a full-on CAMPAIGN on this issue. Anybody know of any I can sign up to?

I joined and am now chair of the Maternity Services Liasion Committee at my local maternity unit. All maternity hospitals should have one, i believe they are a legal requirement. as a user of the maternity services your input at one of these would be very valuable. the committees are supposed to direct change in the local provision of maternity services. through that i got asked to join a monthly maternity care forum, where i can offer my opinion and highlight issues that have been brought to my attention. these forums are really useful and positive . speak to the head of midwifery about attending

also, mazzletov, your local branch of the NCT might be really proactive in this sort of thing, so might be worth contacting them too.