For those of you who had a General Anaesthetic with your Caesarean

[kitstwins]

This is a bit of a personal question but I'm about to start my counselling for PND and wondered if anyone could give me any feedback from their experience.

I don't know anyone in real life who had a caesarean under a General Anaesthetic. Mine was carried out as they botched both epidurals and there were no other options - I'd had a huge bleed at 35 weeks into my twin pregnancy. Both babies were born healthy but I've never really felt the same since and found the whole experience both emotionally and physcially traumatic. Physically, because they used forceps, mangled me and then I reacted very badly to the morphine afterwards and was in incredible pain for days, and emotionally because I missed the birth of my children. Not seeing them born was hugely bewildering, totally unexpected and left me coming round from an anaesthetic completely out of it. Quite simply they could have been anyone's babies.

Did anyone else feel similar following a GA caesarean and, if so, how did you 'recover'? I suppose it relates more to people who've had them as a 'surprise' rather than as a planned procedure. So a GA due to a crash emergency. How did you make yourself better? I've held out on anti-ds as I'm really not sure about going down that route and day to day I'm doing okay, but part of me is still rather traumatised. It would help to know if others had felt the same, that I wasn't abnormal for feeling this way, and also that there WAS hope for feeling like 'me' again.

I have read stories on a few other sites but they've been very much in the "I felt fine and was up mucking out the stables the next morning" vein. Brilliant, but probably not what I want to hear at the moment as it will just reinforce my despair.

Thanks in advance.
Kitstwins
x

I had my first DD under general anaesthetic an emergency section. Was totally unprepared for it, one minute I was in the Delivery room, the next minute the Nurses were putting in lines, breaking my waters, paging Drs (I didn't know this at the time, only through DH). DD heart had dropped to below half the normal rate. She was delivered and they had to get her going etc, she spent 5 days in special care.

I was in absolute shock when I came round from the anaesthetic, partly because I had never been in hospital, let a lone have an op, let alone a BABY! I only saw a photo of DD (she was born at 2.40 on a Saturday afternoon, didn't actually meet her until about 11 am on the Sunday.

When I came round from the operation, the Nurses were trying to wake me by telling me I had a DD, all I could think was "oh bless, I have a sister!"

I was quite down after having her, luckily for me, DH took tues and thurs afternoons off and we all went out together. I think if DH hadn't been so caring then things could have really slipped the wrong way.

It also put me off wanting anymore DC, well for a while anyway, until friends starting to have further DC and my DD was over the moon and very attentive towards her friends new siblings. So DH and I decided to try for number 2. This delivery was by far a completely different experience than my first and I went on to have a natural birth in 12 hrs. This then followed 2 and a half yrs later with my 3rd DD, again a natural delivery!

Ceasarians are not as straight forward as some people think, I used to think that every mother should have the choice in choosing how they should deliver their baby. I certainly found my ceasarian a lot more stressful than a natural.. But in saying that, If I hadn't of had that ceasarian then my DD would not be here today!

kitstwins, sorry you have such a hard time of it.

I had a cs under GA, completely caught by surprise. I was induced and coping without pain relief. Then the midwife went quiet, brought in the doctor, whisked into theatre, signed consent form lying down backlit against the operating theatre lights, then blackness. Dd was in distress, missed by midwife for 15 mins because she was too busy reading her book, but not too busy to keep cranking up the syntocinon drip. There was no time to put in a spinal.

Like you, I was completely disorientated when I came around. My nightie was soaked with caked blood, my throat so dry I could barely speak - I remember telling my dh to go to my dd. Subtext: I could not take care of her. I had no desire to see dd at all and had to be coaxed into a wheelchair to SCBU 24 hours later. I understand what you say about the baby could have been someone else's.

I was totally unprepared for a cs, much less one under GA. I had psyched myself up for a natural birth (hence the foolish refusal of pain relief). All in, that disappointment was overshadowed by the demands of motherhood (dd had medical issues and was a demanding baby to boot). It took me 18 months before I could even contemplate another baby - but a lot of that had to do with the challenges of caring for dd, rather than the birth, the effects of which faded much quicker.

Kitstwins, you had what sounds like a long labour, a failed forceps, bad reaction to morphine, painful recovery. Also you have to look after twins - that in itself is hard enough. It sounds like you might be suffering from post-traumatic stress. It is not just the GA, I think it is the totality of your birth and subsequent experience that is too much for any one person to bear.

I had a crash section under GA with 1st baby (DD now 3.7yrs)

I'd planned on a natural birth in hospital but went in at 40+1 with excrutiating upper abdominal pain (not contractions). They suspected abrupted placenta + DD's heartrate was around 200bpm, so I was whisked into theatre within about 15mins of being seen.

I was fine about it before the op - didn't have time to think, plus I'm not phased by hospitals/procedures etc. DH was visibly upset because he was kind of pushed out & could see all the chaos.

My instant reaction on coming round was "pain, pain" - the morphine hadn't kicked in - it hadn't occured to me that I had a baby, even though she was already latched on. DH said I instantly put my arm round her to protect her, but I can't remember - I just remember looking at her and not feeling any connection, or even any emotion. I then felt guilty about thinking about pain before my daughter.

On day 2 I was very upset (too drugged up on day 1) and kept saying she doesn't feel like mine

Physically I recovered very easily but emotionally - well, I'm not sure that I really was able to rationalise what happened until DS was born (when DD was 2.9) I found it so hard to bond with DD but it didn't help that she was a nightmare screaming baby til 4mths! I started feeling better after 6mths and finally realised how much I loved her.

Above all I was absolutely distraught that I'd missed the shared experience of seeing our baby being born. I was realistic about possibly needing a section, even though I'd planned a natural birth - I'd even packed my hospital bag with enough stuff for a longer stay - as I knew I was going to have a huge baby & thought she might get stuck!

I ended up having an emergency section with DS but was awake (just spinal block) and his birth was a completely positive experience because I was awake, holding DH's hand and we witnessed it together . I loved every second of it!

I always believe that part of a recovery process is talking to people as much as possible about the experience, but that's pretty difficult when you don't know anyone else who's undergone a GA section. I only met one registrar (1 week before DS was born) who'd had a GA with her only child - and we had a good cry about it together

I think it's great that you're starting counselling - I definitely think it would've helped me.

Good luck, and lots of (((((hugs)))))

kits, i did not have a crash GA section, but a 'normal' em c.s for failure to progress. it absolutely destroyed me and i had severe PND for a number of years. a combination of tablets and intensive counselling,and finally, another baby were all part of the healing process. it did take a long time, but it was worth it. FWIW, i found recovery very difficult, not up and about for a good week or so....hospital for 4 days.. have you looked on the birth trauma site or the sheila kitzinger site..BTA has sections of volunteers who can help with specific traumas...hope you are on the road to recovery very , very soon.

if i can just remind you that everything you are feeling is normal, valid and allowed.

Kitstwins, my cs was not under ga but I felt very similarly to you in that ds could have been anybody's baby. I was planning a home birth (ha!), but was hospitalised with pre-eclampsia at 31 weeks. I was told that they would induce me at 36 weeks, so was still imagining vaginal birth, hadn't considered possibilty of cs and was utterly unprepared when a doctor turned up and told me I was having a cs that afternoon. Ds went straight to SCBU. They sent me a picture and I remember that he had a hat on and I didn't know whether he had any hair. All these people had been looking after him and I hadn't even touched him - I didn't get to hold him until he was 5 days old. He felt like the hospital's baby and I found it very difficult to imagine that he had actually come from me.

How old are your twins? I honestly found that the best thing for me was the passage of time (cliche I know). Ds is 18 months now and I only really started to forget about his birth after about a year. Getting his and my notes and reading them over and over again also helped.

I really don't think you are abnormal for feeling this way, it's a very traumatic thing to have happened to you - I can't imagine how much worse it would have been having a ga. And I was definitely NOT mucking out the stables the next day. Lying on the bed whimpering and begging for morphine more like (and that was from a straight forward cs to deliver a 5lb baby).

Hope the counselling goes well and helps you to feel better.

When I say "forget", it is still there, but not at the front of my mind jumping up and down in front of everything I do. I don't think I actually want to forget about it, just feel at peace with it.

I had a crash section 9 years ago next week for DS, and totally understand how you must be feeling right now. Just want you to know that you are not abnormal, in any way.

I think the worst part for me was missing out on my DS's first moments in the world. You spend your pregnancy anticipating the moment you meet your baby and for me, it didn't happen. I can't remember anything about that day after the GA at all, so have no recollection of meeting DS, our first cuddle, there is nothing there in my memory. It still brings a lump to my throat now!

However, I did feel better with time, I eventually accepted that was what happened, and I probably wouldn't have had a DS to cuddle at all without the cs. Not much help, I know, but you will feel like you again!

I had DD 5 months ago by elective cs, which has gone a long way to making me feel less sad about DS's birth (although I don't necessarily attribute that to the elective cs).

I think talking to somebody about it is definitely the best thing, as no one debriefed me about the birth and I really wish I'd had someone to talk to, other than my poor DH whose ears were half bent off with listening to me trying to rationalise things.

I hope things feel better for you soon.

Hi there. Similar to Lululamama - I didn't have a crash under GA, but an 'elective' with spinal after failure to progress, however I can really relate with your feelings. I found the whole experience traumatic, and suffered severe PND for a long while after my son was born. I just wasn't prepared for recovering from a major operation and taking care of a demanding newborn baby. It was incredibly hard. My son is now almost 3 yrs old and we are ttc no.2, but for a while I swore I would never have another child. Have you had any counselling? I found it helped a bit.

Hi Kitstwins,

I joined Mumsnet to try and connect with people during my post-cs recovery; others' experiences are all reinforcing my view that hospitals treat birth like a PHYSICAL experience and totally neglect the EMOTIONAL and PSYCHOLOGICAL aspects of it. When CS is necessary, they're only thinking about getting the baby out of your body, not how either of you are going to FEEL about the way they do that. It's a shocker. My DD was undiagnosed breech, I was in the middle of a home water birth when we found out. Emergency CS WAS spinal, not GA so I was 'conscious though dazed by bewilderment and fear, and as they didn't show her to me until she was all cleaned up, I relate to your sense of detachment though recognise yours will be even more severe .

First thing I posted on mumsnet was in response to Lilimama's birth story, sorry it's a long post but it explains how I'm getting my head around my CS, I think it might be of some use to you even though I didn't have GA. Ditto other stories shared in that thread. You are definitely not alone.

Well done for avoiding Anti-ds, I don't know how hippy-dippy you are but Tai Chi is excellent for PND as it is 'grounding', gets your hormones back in balance, de-stresses, etc. Best of luck with your recovery. And CONGRATULATIONS on baking 2 healthy babes at once! x

i had ga for emcs with first child-now nearly 8.im not going to go into ins and out but will say it did effect me at first-id slept through her first minutes!and was dopey for days after but we bonded and everything went well-i was just glad to have my lo!3 months later i was pregnant with ds1-i had planned csection,everything went smoothly and i had bad pnd .

link to thread about birth trauma, with links to the BTA and birth crisis

the psychological effects of a crash or emergency c.s are often not discussed openly.. or you try to talk about it, and get the 'oh, as long as the baby is ok, what does it matter how he/she got here?'

well ,of course it matters

after my c.s my baby was cleaned, weighed, dressed , wrapped in some towels, had a hat one, and given to my DH, whilst i was being stitched up , and was shaking and vomiting and only able to touch my baby's cheek.

that is not ideal, in anyone's book.

and HCPs wonder why women are traumatised?

not everyone has a bad experience, but for those who do, the support is so necessary

I had a GA C-sect at 36 weeks.

I was induced due to pre eclampsia & the c-section was because she was distressed & no time for anything else. I wasn't far along, so it was the only option.

I saw her for 10 minutes the next day [she was born at 11.20pm] then I had her with me the day after that at lunch time. Mainly due me to being kept sedated due to high BP, plus she spent a while in scbu.

What affected me was

• I wasn't the first to meet or hold her
• I wasn't the first to feed her/change her nappy/dress her
• I didn't hear her cry/don't know if she cried
• Dh wasn't at the birth & after a few relationship problems we really really wanted this
• He didn't get to cut the cord

I can still cry about it now, 4+ years on. I had a few weeks where I would just start thinking about it, start feeling like I had failed her & me. And the tears would come.

I felt cheated that I couldn't give birth to her. I couldn't bare to look at my scar as it reminded me of the failure that I [my body] was. Dh had to clean around my scar as I just couldn't face it, couldn't bare to touch it.

Then I wrote the long story that was my birth plan & my friend asked me to email it. I had put on it how I felt I had let dd down, etc.

She said, amoung other things
"While I have no idea of how important those things are you mentioned [she has no children] you have years ahead of you now with dd, I am sure that there are many more important things that will come your way & you will be involved in. You have a whole lifetime together.

As for your scar, that is your daughter's door into this world, be proud of it, it is you & it is her, a vital part of her life.

You gave life, you gave birth. Which ever way you see it, you are the most important person in her life, no one gave her what you could, what you did. Let them have the first nappy change, you have all the rest"

It was those words that turned me around a bit, made me realise that some things, whilest very important to me, couldn't be fixed/changed. I just had to make new memories & try to think that the birth was just one day in many. Living under that cloud stopped me from enjoying my baby & at times I felt like I was just baby sitting, waiting to give her back.

I am not saying it was easy & I didn't suffer with PND & it must be hard for you, I don't know where you will find that turn around, I hope you do.

I wanted to also add that dd sees my scar & the first time she saw it, she asked what it was & I explained to her.

She wants to see it all the time now & it is a talking point for us. I am 16 weeks with #2 & dd is hoping that #2 will come out of there too because then they will be "the same"

Good Luck with the counselling.

Sandcastles, your friend's words have just made me cry, they're beautiful, what a great friend

Hope you get the birth you want this time xx

When I was 31 weeks pg I went into labour with DD, went into the hospital and was given all sorts of drugs to stop the pain I was in and the labour. Was actually asked if I was a 'sensitive girl' because the drugs werent stopping the pain!
Anyway, to cut a long stary short, the doc's couldnt find out what was wrong with me, I was in hospital for about a week (I have no exact idea as to dates and times as I remember very little and was out of it most of the time).
I had scan afetr scan and eventually one showed a small blood clot in my womb, however it seemed not to be bleeding, I ahdnt lost any blood externally and my blood pressure was fine, so the docs decided it probably wasnt that.
They decided to take me down to theatre to have a look at my ovaries and my bowels incase of a cyst.
Whilst I was under GA they realised I had in fact had a placental abruption, I ahd lost almost 8 pints of blood into my womb and both DD and I were extremely lucky to be alive, they perfomed a CS there and then and I awoke a few hours later to be told I had had a baby.

I wasn't able to see her for the first few days because I was so poorly, on blood transfusions/drips/constant epidural etc.
When I finally saw my daughter there was no feeligns there, she was just a baby in an incubator, I foudn it incredibly hard to relate my pregnancy, the horror that I ahd been through and a mothers love.

I ended up with severe PND and was back in hospital six months later with kidney failure due to overdose. So in that respect I have no idea how you are supposed to deal with it! If anti-d's are a way forward then I wouldn't hold out personally, I would give anything to be able to go back to that time and bond with my daughter, she is seven now and though I love her to pieces it is not the same relationship I have with DS.

Like fishpie, I was determined to enver have another baby at first, it took nealry four years before I was able to say I was 'voer' it enough to ttc again, during DS's pregnancy I buried my head all the way through, with talk of vaginal births and the such eve though I had been told from the start I was going to have an El Cs, the CS itself wasnt as bad as I thoguht it was but instead of thnking about it I focussed on breastfeeding, something I felt would help me overcome the bodning issues I feel I had due to the method of delivery.

Am now pg with no3, and have a wonderful cons who has said it may be possible for me to have a VBAC, she thinks its unlikely, but I am being supported in that decision after I fell apart in her office at the mere mention of surgery, thankfully hse understands just how importnat it is to me, but I'm still petrified that I may end up in theatre again,.

It has helped me alot to talk to other people on ehre that have been through similar or have the same feelings and to have those feelings acknowledged but I'm still far from 'better', my only consoltaion this time is that I am tryign every possible route not to have to be cut open again and that if I am, I will know why and that it's goign to happen, taking control of my pregnancy through research and discussion with my cons has made me feel more in control which is a big deal for me.

Anyway I'm rambling now, but that's my story, I hope it helps.

Thank you EVERYONE for your responses. I didn't expect to get so many (any?) replies. Each and every one of them was very helpful.

My daughters were born at the end of 2006 and so I have had well over a year of muddling through. My PND has only just been diagnosed, although I knew within days of the birth that something wasn't right. But when you're a new mother the last thing you want to admit is that you're feeling down and not coping with any of it. The pressure - probably self inflicted - to be the calm, nuturing, cake-baking embodiment of motherhood is almost overwhelming. I longed for someone to really ask me how I felt but no one ever never did. Family, friends and health professionals all glossed over the events of their birth and the preceding month (I spent the five weeks before their birth in hospital due to bleeding) and just tried to jolly me along. "Never mind; you've got two healthy babies so you're very lucky". As if I didn't know that. A polite way of telling me to pull myself together I suppose.

I'm starting counselling next week and have finally managed to get a copy of my hospital notes which I'll be talking through with the Head of Midwifery and an anaethetist from the hospital. That's happening in a few weeks. Plus, I wrote a no-holds-barred, graphic account of my daughters birth which was very cathartic. I recently forwarded this to a friend as it felt very important to have someone acknowledge what I REALLY went through; to go beyond the "Oooh, that sounds dreadful. Anyway, at least they're healthy....." and she was great. And I'm doing lots of exercise (running and pilates) and eating well and taking a good vitamin and Omega supplement.

So I'm doing stuff and moving in the right direction but I suppose I just wanted to put my hands out in the dark and see if anyone else was out there too. And there are. And the fact that you've got through it and all made your peace (somehow, and in the end) gives me hope. And lots of you have had babies since, which is something I long to do.

So many of my problems (and ultimately my PND) could have been alleviated if someone had actually talked through what happened to me that day. As Mazzletov said in her post, it all seemed to be about the physical rather than the emotional side of things. That once they stitched me up and wheeled me into HDU they thought "job done". But it wasn't. I needed help and it wasn't forthcoming and I think hospitals need to recognise this. Which is why I'm seeing them next month. So the next time someone delivers a baby through a GA/C-sec the hospital recognise that the needs of the Mother (and father) go beyond stitching and pain management. That if you're unlucky enough to be denied seeing your children born then at least someone can paint the picture for you and fill in the blanks. It's not the same, but you can still create a memory from it and that can make a huge difference.

Thank you again.
Kx

Wow Sandcastles what strong and powerful words from your friend, like Amazonianwoman I'm in tears!

Kitstwin, you replied to my thread I started about me struggling to move on from my CS under GA and reading everyone's experiences really helped me, it was like a group therapy where you can all tell as much or little as you like.
I'm glad you're getting councelling, I would really like to get some as well but the Dr says it's too soon (6wks post natal at the moment).

I feel very similar to you and so wanted to agree that I was certainly not sweeping stables the morning after! I initially had some bonding problems but when DS had to go back into hospital it all changed.

Whoever it was said they felt they were babysitting, that's exactly how I felt as well (and sometimes still do, I feel quite inadequate as a mother, waiting for someone to criticise or tell me off).

I am getting fed up of how dismissive people are though, YES I KNOW the CS and GA were necessary but my feelings about it are none the less.

Sandcastles, your post made me cry. What a wonderful friend you have.

Hi,
My boy was breach, undiagnosed until i was about 9cms dilated.
He was in distress as they had slashed his back in 4 places breaking my waters.
I had pre eclampsia and was induced.
On discovery of bottom presentation and muconium, im told by my dh that they took me for a GA to have a cs.

I have no recollection of any of the events.

my boy was 5lbs, healthy, bruised and badly slashed.
That would have been his face/head had he been the right way up so i am very glad he was upside down.

I have read many of the posts on this and unlike any of the other ladies i have no post birth distress neither am i affected by it.
4 years on i dont realy give it a second thought.
On day 5 post birth, the midwife who cared for me throughout my "trauma" came to sit with me with my medical notes.
She went through them line by line explaining what had happened and why it had happened.
During the time of the birth my vague memory is that of her voice.
It was strong, in control, informative and commanding.
She made me feel cared for and safe, i knew that she knew precisely what she was doing every step of the way.
My boy has horrid scars on his back now.
He is happy, healthy and a joy.

I developed PND but did not go to the Drs till he was 2. I do not blame the birth on this at all, it just happened.
I have no qualms at all about having another baby, the birth does not phase me because they did what was right and proper.
I am sorry that so many women are so profoundly affected by their experience, i guess i am just lucky.
I believe that everything in my life has happened for a reason, so i accept it and i havent looked back.

Im not dismissing other peoples experience by the way.
What im saying is that sometimes i wonder if perhaps i am abnormal to be so ok with it all?
It was a trauma, yet i cant bring myself to see it that way.
I listen to other people and i feel quite lucky tbh.
I am odd tho in RL

Maybe the midwife actually taking the time to sit with you and discuss it so close to the event helped.

Kitstwins, I answered loucee's thread on this. It sounds to me like you're doing all the right things. I was lucky in that my sister sent me some news articles about the trauma of emergency cs, and asked me if I was alright. It was like she gave me permission to admit I was not alright, and to do something about it.
Also, if it helps, I have had another child and she was VBAC (epidural and forceps, but at least I was awake!), and I'm expecting my third in July.

PS, as I said on the other thread, I was fortunate anough not to have PND, but post-traumatic stress, and didn't need ADS

Geez, guys...I didn't want to make anyone cry! Although I still do when I read it.

She has a way with words, my friend. It was like she knew exactly how I was feeling & with her words she wiped [most of] it away. Thanks to her, I will always be proud of my scar, being my daughter's door into this world.

donbean, I wonder if going through your notes helped? I would have loved the chance to ask the team if she cried etc, but no one was around at the right times.

My last pregnant memory was watching dh shed a tear as they wheeled me into theatre & being scared that they were going to cut me before I was alseep...that is all I have left of dd's birth. Not what I expected at all.