free birthing (please don't post if you don't like the idea)

[workstostaysane]

anyone done it, interested in it, read the books?
i'm only just pregnant for the 2nd time - had a totally drug free wonderful home birth first time around and now keep thinking i'd love to do it without a midwife this time. just interested to know if there is anyone else really.

DH has dug holes in our gardens for the 4 placentas then he gets a tree or bush and plants it on top. They really thrive too.

Oh and by the way I know of one woman who gave birth in hospital and waited a full 24 HOURS for the placenta to come out. It did. (She was doing okay and her Dr. was happy to wait)

So the whole 2 hours and then transfer to hospital thing is really just a protocol. Of course I am not saying waiting 24 hours is ideal, I'm just saying that there might be a range of what could be considered within the bounds of normal.

Spidermama - ouchy! DD was born direct OP too but she was only about 7 pounds or so. We have some lovely photos of her little face appearing under the water - my doula was very surprised to see a face instead of the usual back of the baby's head!

Can't help re cutting the cord as we didn't - we had a lotus birth (although we did cut it about 36 hours later when it was totally dry, so never clamped it).

We wrapped it up in one of those bed protectors and duct tape (sorry not very romantic) and when we had cut it off we put it in the bin.

Spidermama - ouchy! DD was born direct OP too but she was only about 7 pounds or so. We have some lovely photos of her little face appearing under the water - my doula was very surprised to see a face instead of the usual back of the baby's head!

wow mrsmalumbas, inspiring stuff.
thanks for the stuff about the cord, thats really helpful.
where do you buy clamps by the way? i read somewhere that you could just boil some string or use shoelaces that have been unopened in their packet. true or no?

spidermama - its interesting i think, that you knew for quite a while that you wanted a mw there and that in the end, you did need her.
i think i will see how my feelings evolve over the next 8 months. it took me a little while to get to grips with a home birth 1st time round - i thought i would be a 'get me down the hospital quick' kind of girl and the responsibility involved with a home birth took some getting used to.

and no mrsmalumbas, i wouldn't even know where to get hold of those things to have them just in case, so i guess i would just have to be comfortable with the 5% risk factor...

I got all mine from my Dr. but as I said it was overseas so different system to here. I just got the tank myself from a supply company (like BOC here, but I had to specifically ask for a pediatric mask, lots of people have oxygen at home for medical reasons so not that tricky I think). Cord clamps - dunno, try e-bay?! Or yes I think string but would have to be boiled to make it sterile then stored somehow in a sterile container - tupperware? I think you'd have to make the knot very tight though. Shepherds Purse is a herb, you could probably get it from a herbalist, it's used to stop PPH. Or you could just eat a bit of placenta

There was an interview on LK Today with an american woman who had freebirthed. It was on TV about 6 months ago. I think she was also a trained midwife and doula. Everything went to plan for her.

Very interesting thread. As an experienced community midwife who practises 'hands-off', and positively jumps for joy if i am lucky enough to be present at a birth where the mother embraces all things natural, i have to say my heart is in my mouth reading some of these comments.
It is one thing to be 'aware' of the potential risks, even though they are small in percentage. But actually, the reality of a severe shoulder dystocia, or haemorrage are terrifying, and i don't for one second think that enyone should pretend that they could cope with either of these alone at home.

I'm gobsmacked at the naivety of assuming you will get the birth you expect - the post about neurotic friend ending up with C-Section etc, and the certainty that if you expect a natural birth and think positively all will be straightforward enough to need no trained intervention.

by Worktostaysane Wed 23-Jan-08 21:46:37:

'i find that every one of my friends have had the births one would expect of them. the neurotic had the c-section, as did the perpetual victim. the tough neurotic had drugs but pushed her way through, i had the hippy water birth, the outdoorsy engineer had hard work but safely at home, the faithful christians also at home.'

How incredibly insulting, and naïve. (I could use far stronger words but will restrain myself)

Yeah Belgo.

I'm neurotic (and not the tough!) and had both mine at home so it's not even accurate!

Belgo i agree. I wanted the "hippy water birth" well being a yoga teacher who would have expected anything else. Unfortunately lifes not like that and had a c-section.

Love the fact that you expect people not post negatively about freebirthing, and yet you can post comments about people having caesareans, as if it is their own fault because they are 'neurotic'. Foul.
My cousin and her partner read up extensively before having a freebirth in Ireland. Their daughter is severely brain damaged. And please don't tell me that would have happened anyway, it wouldn't have.

I agree that births are far too medicalised nowadays and that increases potential complications. I agree that if you want to have a free birth that is your personal choice. But your assumptions about why people have complications lead me to think that you are not very clear about the real potential risks to you and your child should you go down this route without any midwife at all.

Sadly I think more women will end up having unassisted birth if the crisis around Independent Midwives isn't sorted out. I had a home water birth after 3 previous caesareans and luckily for me I was able to borrow the money to pay for an IM. Otherwise I would have considered going it alone as I couldn't trust an NHS midwife not to manufacture a reason why I should go into hospital.

Its really sad but some women's experience of birth is so poor that the mere presence of a midwife acts as a brake to their labour and I can understand why some women feel compelled to go it alone. Also when its just luck of the draw which stranger is going to come into your home I can also understand why someone who has needed very little care previously would resent that potential intrusion.

Having experienced "proper" midwifery care from someone I knew and trusted and had got to know over several months, someone who sat back so I could get on with it but was there if I needed her was just fantastic. However, I'm aware of how lucky I was to be able to achieve that level of care. It wasn't just having her as a safety net though there was a real feeling of tapping into female empathy, the room was just humming with it. I think DH needed that support too, he was anxious enough about homebirthing after our previous experiences, to do it alone would have been difficult for him.

I don't believe that women get the birth they
"deserve" but having watched hundreds of women over ten years I'd say that walking into a consultant led unit (like I did I hasten to add) and vaguely hoping that all will go swimmingly whilst firmly believing that birth is a hideous dangerous experience probably isn't a recipe for a straightforward birth. Anxious women, brought up to believe implicitly that birth is terribly dangerous and can only be done in the presence of lots of machinery, trying to do something so bodily intimate in the company of strangers (or with a stranger popping in and out at intervals) don't labour well. It's like asking a virgin to have public sex!

What we need though is to stop attacking each other for our choices and campaign to get better midwifery care and a higher rate of straightforward birth in this country.

welliemum, the BBC Sweden article was very interesting. Statistics are used quite a lot here, but that seemed to prove (to me anyway) that hospitals are the safest place for a baby to be born, even if parents choose not to use the doctors/equipment.

I am really sorry to have offended anyone with the idea that 'everyone gets the birth they expect' idea. I did ask mumsnet to remove the post and after discussion with them, decided to leave it. noone at that point had taken offence, and MN advised that the sense of the thread might be lost if the posts were removed.

FWIW, i did not say that every woman gets the birth they deserve, just that IME, i could see how each of my friends had the birth they have had.

Can you choose a midwife to be available or on standby? Or is it luck of the draw?

You can register with a midwife and have all the checks etc. just not call them till late one. I don't think a midwife would be prepared to be just on 'standby' if she is supposed to be taking care of you. That might be classed as neglect if something went wrong. but there are midwives on here who would know isuspect

I paid to have a senior midwife attend my birth, he practiced accupunture but he couldn't practice the two together, he was there as a accupuncturist. He was incredible and really helped with breathing and massage. I think there are inbetween measures you can take that isn't completely unassisted. You want someone who will be calm if there is a problem of any kind, it might be nothing but you'd at least have that reassurance.

You'd have to have a midwife that respected the wishes of the parents and understood. Perhaps that's why going it alone is the choice here. I didn't get on with my midwife at all and was relieved I'd paid to have the senior midwife their too. I think people should be able to exercise choice.

Worktostaysane - while I realise you've apologised I'm afraid I do find your post offensive - not just for myself ( i had 2 emergency c-sections, and all friends would describe me as one of the least neurotic people they know). There are medical reasons why some people cannot give birth naturally - you just have to look at the fact that women in Sierra Leone have a 1 in 8 lifetime risk of dying in childbirth to realise that natural isn't always best (and no - it's not because they are malnourished or anything like that - they die from the same complications that are detected and treated in the UK). C- sections are a life-saving procedure for some, and while I fully agree that more could be done to promote natural birth I think your comments do little to appease the guilt and dissapointment that many feel after a section.

WTSS- I had actually missed that comment about the different types getting the birth that they 'deserve'

I think it says a lot , that you are possibly too focused on the idea of freebirthing as the perfect pinnacle of childbirth. that if we just want something enough, it will happen. that if we read enough and educate ourselves enough , it will stop anything unexpected happening.

there is nothing wrong with knowing what you want,what you would love to achieve, but i think it needs to be tempered with some rationality and some looking outside the situation

i keep coming back to the point that throughout history and different traditons etc... women do not tend to birth alone as a rule. whether with a midwife or an experienced woman..

my mistake first time round was not considering the 'what ifs?'

I had an induced birth ending in an emergency c.section. My birth plan was very much focused on a natural birth, with few if any drugs and lots of movement and being able to work with my body.

In reality i ended up labouring in bed with diamorphine and an epidural, without understanding the ramifications of what was happening.

I had not for one moment considered that my natural birth would end in surgery and i was devastated for years afterwards.

Have you thought about the 'what ifs', and if your freebirth plans are scuppered for any reason?

Also the fact you are still willing to go against your DHs express wishes that you do not do this...this is his child too, and he needs to feel comfortable with how you intend to birth this baby... do you think your relationship could survive if you freebirth ,and god forbid, something goes wrong.. and he had been unhappy about you doing this?

Am trying really hard not to come across as lecturing or hectoring in my tone,so apologies if i have done

Or cross disciplines like accupuncture and midwife combined. In germany consultants have to train in at least one alternative discipline. The consultant at my hospital was also a homeopath. their scared of being sued hence the legalities, also the insurance for a private midwife is makes it a terribly dear do.