ELCS due to not wanting to have vaginal pain AFTER birth?

[Dexter77]

I’m currently deciding between an ELCS and a VB with epidural. I don’t believe in enduring pain that’s unnecessary and always assumed I’d have an ELCS as I think it’s a great and safe option, but now wonder whether the latter would be preferable. What’s holding me back from attempting VB is the prospect of weeks/months of pain in vaginal area after birth, as well as the fact that postnatal aftercare of birth injuries seems to be woefully inadequate in the UK with long waiting times and insufficient support.

I’d be fine with temporary pain during birth but find the prospect of having vaginal pain for so long totally unacceptable - not even to mention other potential complications such as prolapse and incontinence.
I suppose I’m asking whether it’ll be a given to have vaginal/perineal pain AFTER the birth with VB of normal sized babies (no reason to assume mine will be big).
Keen also to hear from women who had a pain free birth but pain afterwards and how they found it.

PS: And yes, I know there’ll be pain from having an ELCS after birth, but I just know I’ll cope better with having pain in abdomen than in genital area.

I had 2 vagina births and didnt tear once and was back to having sex the next week, didn't feel any pain at all but I imagine a Cs is painful everytime it happens.

I personally would not, if I had anothet child I'd go for vagina with just diarmorphine. Didn't feel a thing

@onedaysoonish

OP go for the ELCS. It's 10/15 mins to get the baby out (and they don't cut muscle - people often think they do but they don't in an ELCS) then 20/30 mins stitching you up. My scar is 10cm ish and it's not "on the abdomen" which is conjuring up the image of a scar you can see in a bikini - it is waaaay down in the pubes. No way is it visible over pants/bikini unless you are wearing very niche pants!! I didn't have any pain during the operation, the pulling the baby out felt weird but not painful, I'm a big wuss and I felt like I couldn't stand up straight properly for the first few days but the nurses looked at me like I was making it up when I walked hunched over and I do think it was the anticipation of pain if I stood up rather than pain that was actually present. I was totally fine two weeks later. The most painful part of the ELCS for me was the first poo (and I think it's good to know that because I was a bit surprised and I was sobbing in the loo). Once the stitch comes out do make an effort to use the scar gel though because if you do the scar fades super fast - I didn't and mine is still really visible 8 months later so I'm starting now but the gel works much better if the scar is new.

My OBGYN told me that 50% of first time VBs end up in intervention of some kind - forceps, EMCS etc and that a c section is marginally lower risk for the baby, VB is marginally lower risk for the mother.

Thanks for sharing that, your experience aligns with that of many others who’ve had an ELCS. Good to know about the poo after! Was that painful because you were constipated? Or because you had to push against the stitches? Probs both.

Your OBGYNS comments re birth stats are correct, the stats for successful first time VB not ending in major intervention aren’t amazing and although I’ve given birth to a micropreemie vaginally I am considered a first timer for a term VB.

@yikesanotherbooboo

I had 2 vbs with epidural although with DC2 it was being put in as he arrived. Very straight forward, a couple of stitches the first time , none the second. I have no memory of vaginal pain but do remember the pain of constipation the first time. I took measures to avoid this subsequently. I had a planned section the third time which was nice in a way. No fear, pain free and a text book recovery. It is still much more of an imposition that a normal vb.

That’s all rather encouraging! Thanks for sharing.

Ive had 2 painful vaginal births (both were b2b) and when I was 13 I had my appendix out. The pain was much worse after the appendectomy than the vb. Every single movement uses stomach muscles. Both times I had 2nd degree tear, the 2nd time I needed surgery due to haemorrage. I dont remember anything more than a bit of discomfort for a few days and massive hemorrhoids.

Honestly I think the best thing to do would be to talk to your gp about your worries and ask what is available in your area for birth injuries, and how easy or otherwise is it to get referred.

@Somuchgoo

"CS pain and a long recovery is a given."

No one told my body that...
Seriously, I was googling 'when do c sections start to hurt', when in hospital.

2 easy recoveries. In the end they weren't entirely pain free, but much more so than i could have anticipated.

The surgery itself was so pain free that I even videoed my husband's first cuddle on my phone. I had skin to skin cuddles within 3 minutes of birth, breastfeeding within the first 30 minutes, and bonding was great - I think made easier by me not being in pain or exhausted.

There was pain but it was limited to:

• trapped gas pain
• birth after pains, which you get regardless of the method of delivery
• some pain getting up and down for the first 48 hours. The first time I got up, it was quite bad, by the 20th barely noticeable.
• mild bruising with my second. This just felt like I'd overdone a workout, was only present occasionally and not bad enough for painkillers

With my second, i got a mild burning occasionally, for a few days, across my scar line, but it just felt like I'd hugged a bag of chips for too long rather than pain.

I was back to doing basic chores, shopping, sitting on the floor to do nappies, walks, meeting friends within 3 days.

That sounds like some great experiences! Do you mind me asking how you found bonding with your baby after your sections?

I haven’t discussed with my consultant yet what the hospital policy is regarding skin to skin after a section and what the general protocol is in case things go smoothly, every hospital is quite different there.
I mentioned previously but I’m considering a VB because I think it would be quite healing for me to be able to pick up my child immediately after the birth. Although this is not the most important part of my deliberations.

I had a technical ELCS but baby was breech and we found out during surgery the cord was round her neck and arm behind her back so would've likely ended up in a crash section if I hadn't gone ELCS.

I had an infection during recover and it's a hard recover. I had her at 1321 went down about 1230 and was back on the ward by 1530 so not 10-20 mins and mine was a straightforward op.

I'm expecting again and have an appointment with the consultant next month to discuss whether to have a section again or attempt a VBAC.

I had no issues bonding with my daughter, or breastfeeding thankfully. Was out in just over 24 hours but that was due to the pandemic.

It really is major surgery and I'll have to seriously consider my options this time

I can’t help but laugh at your attitude

@LapinR0se

I’ve had two ELCS. First one was horrible because I had a bad reaction to the anaesthesia and shook violently and vomited during and after the section. Also my baby got neonatal pneumonia and I couldn’t go to the SCBU to see her because I was stuck in bed unable to move. Afterwards I was in severe pain for two weeks and couldn’t poo for 3 weeks and had to have manual evacuation. Second one was a dream. No reaction to the anaesthetic, felt great next day and could pick up and feed the baby etc. Recovered perfectly and no constipation. I can’t say why. They were both ELCS in private hospitals. Just completely different experiences

Very interesting @LapinR0se! Sorry you had such a hard time the first time.

Do you know what caused your allergic reaction the first time and did you have a different anaesthetic the second time do you know?

They put the baby on you straight away in an elective (or they did for me), same as a vaginal. I had to hand him to partner when I'm blood pressure dropped from blood lose and I was unconscious though.

I'm extremely close with my son, he is incredibly tactile and we cuddle and kiss constsntly so definitely not impacted him

@Prettybubblesintheair

I can’t help but laugh at your attitude

🤷‍♀️ Yeah, funny little me, trying to avoid birth outcomes I’d find it hard to live with 🙄

I really think you need some counselling OP. Even a remote possibility that you will ‘resent’ your baby for a negative birth outcome (which you cannot guarantee will not happen, whichever method you choose) is worrying.

Yeah, funny little me, trying to avoid birth outcomes I’d find it hard to live with
But that's not what you're doing. You are keen to hear about people's positive CA experiences. You don't seem interested in negative CS birth experiences or positice VB experiences. For example, one of the outcomes of CS is hysterectomy, would you find that hard to live with? Have you looked into what a hysterectomy would mean for you long term?

ELCS here and I am totally in favour of recommending. I was high risk thanks to preeclampsia and a breech baby and my birth was calm and pain free, despite a few complications. I was up and walking the same day and pain was more than manageable on ibuprofen. It felt like just the ache you get when you've overdone it at the gym!

It's about time women's private parts were not seen as cannon fodder in the drive for 'natural births'. It should be a choice for all mothers, their body, their birth.

People who want a VB, should be allowed to do so, personally the risk of it ending in an EMCS or instrumental (inhumane in my opinion) are far too high in the UK. I can't see any other medical procedure where it is acceptable to cut or stitch someone without anaesthesia, yet apparently, during birth it's OK!

Go for the ELCS. This attitude that women must suffer pain to have a child is deeply unacceptable when there are much better alternatives.

@ronkey

I am prepared for the risks of a c section, but I’m not prepared to accept certain risks of a VB.

What are the certain risks of a VB?

Well, major tears, prolapse, vaginal nerve damage, double incontinence, being in pain for a long time afterwards, finding sex painful. I also don’t like not knowing at all how a VB will play out - it could result in the baby fighting for its life and EMCS. A forceps birth would also be an outcome I would be willing to avoid by having a planned section instead.

I’m not really worried about pain during a VB as I’m sure I could get an epidural if I wanted, which work great on me. It’s the long term damage and pain and risk to the baby.

@ThePoisonousMushroom

I really think you need some counselling OP. Even a remote possibility that you will ‘resent’ your baby for a negative birth outcome (which you cannot guarantee will not happen, whichever method you choose) is worrying.

It’s not worrying, it’s extremely common. Not all women see themselves as vessels and solely enablers of their children’s happiness and health. My health and sanity matters just as much, and I certainly don’t need counselling to convince me otherwise.

I don’t think that’s what you’re doing at all. You’re dictating what levels of pain/possible outcomes you find “acceptable” when it’s just not possible to control all that! Having babies hurts. I didn’t find it particularly acceptable that I had two forcep deliveries with third degree tears but hey ho it happened and I had my babies safely in my arms! You can’t decide what’s acceptable and what’s not, you can choose one exit or another but what happens during/after isn’t really up to you and there won’t be a fat lot you can do about it if you have complications with either one.

Your attitude is pretty horrific. I hope you’re kind to the poor staff delivering your baby. And I agree with the above poster, you need counselling as its not really common for you to worry you’ll feel negatively about your baby if you have a bad birth.

@Dexter77 out of interest can you also list what risks you have read about relating to a CS? If anything just to prove people wrong that you are aware of risks with a CS.
I don't care how you give birth but it does feel like you are minimising how big a CS actually is, and judging by most of these posts on this thread it appears a lot of other people think the same.

@Bitofachinwag

Yeah, funny little me, trying to avoid birth outcomes I’d find it hard to live with But that's not what you're doing. You are keen to hear about people's positive CA experiences. You don't seem interested in negative CS birth experiences or positice VB experiences. For example, one of the outcomes of CS is hysterectomy, would you find that hard to live with? Have you looked into what a hysterectomy would mean for you long term?

No I’m not. Read the thread. I don’t know what your problem is. Sorry about your hysterectomy. If you must know, yea, I’d find long-term vaginal damage much, much worse than a hysterectomy. I have a demanding job and a busy life and I don’t want to be in long-term pain in my genital area. I don’t know what you find that so hard to accept.

Here is some info about one long term risk of a CS.

Long-term effects of uterine cesarean section scar
Abstract
During the last few decades the cesarean delivery rate has been around 15% in Finland. It has remained moderate compared with USA where 30% of women deliver by cesarean section. Compared with vaginal delivery, cesarean section is associated with a three- to sixfold risk of severe complications. Furthermore, it increases also long term gynecological morbidity, including intermenstrual bleeding, chronic pelvic pain and risk of secondary infertility. Scar pregnancy, uterine rupture, placenta previa and accrete are known risks after cesarean section. Because cesarean delivery is associated with increased long-term morbidity, the decision of performing cesarean section should always be carefully considered
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24730196/

It’s not worrying, it’s extremely common. Not all women see themselves as vessels and solely enablers of their children’s happiness and health. My health and sanity matters just as much, and I certainly don’t need counselling to convince me otherwise

That’s entirely not what I meant.
Yes, your health and sanity matters. I didn’t say it didn’t, and I have no opinion on how you birth your child. It’s entirely up to you. I also don’t see myself as a ‘vessel’ .
However, suggesting that you will resent the child, who will have at absolutely no fault, for any negative outcomes is worrying.

Dexter77 I haven't had a hysterectomy.

Agree with the others who say you need counselling... ASAP...

@PaddleBoardingMomma

Agree with the others who say you need counselling... ASAP...

Right back at ya! Oh and the 1950s called, they want their attitude towards childbirth back.

[quote mummyh2016]@Dexter77 out of interest can you also list what risks you have read about relating to a CS? If anything just to prove people wrong that you are aware of risks with a CS.
I don't care how you give birth but it does feel like you are minimising how big a CS actually is, and judging by most of these posts on this thread it appears a lot of other people think the same. [/quote]
Trust me, I know what the risks of CSs are. I don’t need to recite them to you so you can approve of me 🤣
And no, not most of the people on this thread think I am minimising a CS. Read it.